So Touching

• Cucurbita wrote on 2012-01-29 02:58

  Quote from Episkey;752789:

  Pro-life propaganda? If your talking about abortion, then how does this picture and story even have anything to do with abortion?
  
  These twin girls were apparently just born prematurely ... The only "pro-life thing" about it is the fact that it's a heart-touching story.
  Perhaps it is a coincidental event, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

  
  
  If I were to get the message behind the article, and what everyone else who is "dawww"ing is feeling, its more or less:
  
  The girl saved her sister
  
  Which can be translated to:
  
  Even babies have feelings
  
  Which can be translated to:
  
  Don't abort. Pro life.
  
  Very subtle but I knew something was up when I read this, and now I know. Its a heartwarming story that would just chip at the very edge of your consciousness with a fraction of an idea that makes you want to support pro-life.
• Groom wrote on 2012-01-29 03:10

  Quote from Cucurbita;752820:

  If I were to get the message behind the article, and what everyone else who is "dawww"ing is feeling, its more or less:
  
  The girl saved her sister
  
  Which can be translated to:
  
  Even babies have feelings
  
  Which can be translated to:
  
  Don't abort. Pro life.
  
  Very subtle but I knew something was up when I read this, and now I know. Its a heartwarming story that would just chip at the very edge of your consciousness with a fraction of an idea that makes you want to support pro-life.

  
  
  As someone who is pro-choice, hush. It's just a touching story. No more, no less.
• Episkey wrote on 2012-01-29 03:15

  Quote from Cucurbita;752820:

  If I were to get the message behind the article, and what everyone else who is "dawww"ing is feeling, its more or less:
  
  The girl saved her sister
  
  Which can be translated to:
  
  Even babies have feelings
  
  Which can be translated to:
  
  Don't abort. Pro life.
  
  Very subtle but I knew something was up when I read this, and now I know. Its a heartwarming story that would just chip at the very edge of your consciousness with a fraction of an idea that makes you want to support pro-life.

  
  
  Ah. I can kinda see where you are going with that train of thought.
  Still, it's kinda reading between the lines a little bit too much in my opinion.
  
  Now that I think about it these 2 babies would have been in development for about 4-5 months ... so yeah.
  Still having a bit of trouble seeing the whole "This is about Abortion" statement.
  
  [S]inb4 Abortion debate[/S] (If it happens, count me out)
• Milk wrote on 2012-01-29 04:23
  ;_; Awwwww Big Boys Don't Cry........ :cry:
  
  
  Edit: Wow you guys are real kill joys :/. Just enjoy the touching story >w>.
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2012-01-29 04:24

  Quote from Episkey;752789:

  Pro-life propaganda? If your talking about abortion, then how does this picture and story even have anything to do with abortion?
  
  These twin girls were apparently just born prematurely ... The only "pro-life thing" about it is the fact that it's a heart-touching story.
  Perhaps it is a coincidental event, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

  
  Something about "early grasp for life" or something weird.
  
  Don't ask me, I'm not the anti-abortion organisation who has the copyright for the text and gave an unresearchable source.
  
  It seemed fishy, I looked it up, and I gave a quick summary of my findings. If you agree or not, your thing, but I reserve the right to be critical anyway. Also I'm German, party pooping is in my blood. :point:
• Episkey wrote on 2012-01-29 04:33

  Quote from Sumpfkraut;752974:

  Something about "early grasp for life" or something weird.
  
  Don't ask me, I'm not the anti-abortion organisation who has the copyright for the text and gave an unresearchable source.
  
  It seemed fishy, I looked it up, and I gave a quick summary of my findings. If you agree or not, your thing, but I reserve the right to be critical anyway. Also I'm German, party pooping is in my blood. :point:

  
  
  Oh, well I was just wondering. Just wanted a bit of specifics, although in hindsight ...
  I could have looked it up myself :gloom3:
• Cucurbita wrote on 2012-01-29 04:36
  Theres nothing touching about this story.
  
  Its a series of coincidences and its only touching if you believe the action taken by the sister, who just happen to put her arm around her sister, saved her life, which it didn't.
  
  Newborn babies are not self aware.
  
  These otters, however, are. This is touching.
  
  [video=youtube;epUk3T2Kfno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUk3T2Kfno[/video]
• Bride wrote on 2012-01-29 05:26

  Quote from Cucurbita;752990:

  
  These otters, however, are. This is touching.
  
  [video=youtube;epUk3T2Kfno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUk3T2Kfno[/video]

  
  
  prove they have self-awareness plz
  
  afaik only apes and dolphins have self-awareness
• Cucurbita wrote on 2012-01-29 05:46

  Quote from Rigel;753037:

  afaik only apes and dolphins have self-awareness

  
  
  And what, dogs don't?
  
  I've spent enough time with animals to know most of them have a solid degree of self awareness.
  
  Lemme tell ya, for example, crows are one of the smartest animals on the planet, but they haven't been recognized for their intelligence until just recently.
  
  If a living being can recognize itself as what it is, and recognize other beings as what they are, then that makes them self aware, doesn't it? If rats weren't self aware, they wouldn't make good psychology test subjects.
• Bride wrote on 2012-01-29 06:48

  Quote from Cucurbita;753068:

  And what, dogs don't?
  
  I've spent enough time with animals to know most of them have a solid degree of self awareness.
  
  Lemme tell ya, for example, crows are one of the smartest animals on the planet, but they haven't been recognized for their intelligence until just recently.
  
  If a living being can recognize itself as what it is, and recognize other beings as what they are, then that makes them self aware, doesn't it? If rats weren't self aware, they wouldn't make good psychology test subjects.

  
  anecdotal evidence really isn't enough proof for me
  
  I dunno about crows but I believe dogs are purely instinctual creatures, not ones with self-awareness
  
  also
  
  

  If a living being can recognize itself as what it is, and recognize other beings as what they are

  
  
  not really getting this
• Cucurbita wrote on 2012-01-29 15:18

  Quote from Rigel;753155:

  I dunno about crows but I believe dogs are purely instinctual creatures, not ones with self-awareness

  
  
  Do... do you have a dog?
  
  I don't and I'm not a huge fan of them but I've spent enough time around dogs to know they all have their own personalities, preferences, and love to play. Purely instinctive beings don't play. They display emotion and have even been known to have cognitive abilities.
  
  Animals even form leaderships and follow orders. If you can believe that is more of an instinctive trait than self awareness, it could easily be argued that human beings are the same, in that we crave order through being ruled or ruling in a society where a leadership is created.
  
  If we're self aware and dogs aren't, then what is going on in our heads that is considered self aware that isn't going on in a dog's head? They can crave, fear, consequences, learn, recognize, and think. They recognize their own name. How much more self aware do you need to get before you're allowed to be considered self aware?
  
  And for the record, self awareness and self recognition are different. The mirror test is flawed.
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2012-01-29 15:25

  Quote from Rigel;753155:

  anecdotal evidence really isn't enough proof for me

  
  It's enough to falsify opposing theses, if the method is good enough.
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;753887:

  If we're self aware and dogs aren't, then what is going on in our heads that is considered self aware that isn't going on in a dog's head?

  
  I know we have some kind of brain cell that so far only has been found in apes and various whales.
• Bride wrote on 2012-01-29 22:23

  Quote from Cucurbita;753887:

  Do... do you have a dog?
  
  I don't and I'm not a huge fan of them but I've spent enough time around dogs to know they all have their own personalities, preferences, and love to play. Purely instinctive beings don't play. They display emotion and have even been known to have cognitive abilities.
  
  Animals even form leaderships and follow orders. If you can believe that is more of an instinctive trait than self awareness, it could easily be argued that human beings are the same, in that we crave order through being ruled or ruling in a society where a leadership is created.
  
  If we're self aware and dogs aren't, then what is going on in our heads that is considered self aware that isn't going on in a dog's head? They can crave, fear, consequences, learn, recognize, and think. They recognize their own name. How much more self aware do you need to get before you're allowed to be considered self aware?
  
  And for the record, self awareness and self recognition are different. The mirror test is flawed.

  
  I've had 5 dogs in my life (and I currently own 2) so yes, I've spent nearly all my life around them
  
  I read an interesting article about animals' self-awareness, talking about how supremacy/submission and territoriality among other things are parts of self-awareness which I didn't know
  
  guess I have a lot of learning to do :scrub:
  
  

  An animal needs to be self aware in order for it to recognize another individual as a part of itself. Therefore, a sense of belonging is yet, another part of the sense of self awareness.

  
  I thought this was interesting. I think it's that I didn't really look too much into their behavior and credited what was really self-awareness as intelligence or instinct
  
  

  If a living being can recognize itself as what it is, and recognize other beings as what they are

  
  could you elaborate on that? because I'm perceiving it as you're saying a dog is aware it's a dog, and it's aware its owner is a human, when actually dogs see other creatures as dogs, including humans. though some dogs including mine seem to think all smaller animals are prey
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2012-01-30 10:12

  Quote from Rigel;754042:

  I'm perceiving it as you're saying a dog is aware it's a dog, and it's aware its owner is a human

  
  He's saying they know that they are an individuum, and that their owner is an individuum too.