Lann Revamp

• Lukeal wrote on 2012-02-25 10:59
  I think lann might need a revamp even if its a small one. Something to boost his power and survivability. So i thought it would be interesting if he got a sword revamp per say and got skills that use sp for most attacks like kai. I was thinking maybe he could get magic charges? and each would have to cost 1 sp bar.
  
  Element Fire : Lanns swords become imbued with fire for a short amount of time(aproximatly 2 minutes) and do slightly extra damage. If health falls below 25% the effect on the swords will dissapear and create a fire shield around lann reducing damage by 3%(rank F)
  
  Element Ice : Lanns swords become imbued with ice for a short amount of time(just like fire) Ice is balanced and increases damage and defense slightly. Ice also has a chance to freeze trash mobs and a 2% chance to freeze bosses for 2 seconds.
  
  Element Lightning : Lanns swords become imbued with Lightning and become high offense weapons dealing more extra damage. Lightning can also stun trash mobs that get too close for 1.5 seconds. Lann is highly vunerable with this power as if he gets hit there is a chance the lightning effect will bounce back onto him and do damage.
  
  Also i thought it would be cool if he could do something like kai. Instead of morphing his swords like kai does with his bow. Lann changes to reverse twin sword and in this mode elemental attacks are more powerfull.
  
  Just my thoughts on how a revamp might work. I always liked warrior classes with at least a few magic skills but not enough to match the mage of the group.
  
  What are your thoughts on this?
• Sekwaf wrote on 2012-02-25 11:11
  I don't really see swords as needing a boost. Their survivability is excellent if you can use slip dash properly, and their offense is top notch as well (once again, have to know how to use that slip dash and double crescent). Also, for the fire shield, I can't see a 3% reduction in damage doing you any good (see: Karok's Gigantic Strength), especially once you're already down to 25% health, it would be far better to have an explosion that knocks backs and stuns enemies. I like the lightning rebound effect as well, but the stun on enemies is too long (nearly as long as your suggested freeze from ice).
• Oizen wrote on 2012-02-25 12:48

  Quote from Sekwaf;786461:

  I don't really see swords as needing a boost. Their survivability is excellent if you can use slip dash properly, and their offense is top notch as well (once again, have to know how to use that slip dash and double crescent).

  
  
  I'm sorry but.
  
  have you even played Swords lann? Here's a few things you'd like to know.
  
  Slip dash isn't as good as you think, its easily thrown off by lag, it cannot avoid fast combos of 3 hits or more, and is useless for long lasting hit boxes. For example, it is nearly impossible to dodge lionotus's double claw + tail swipe with slip dash. It just doesn't work. It also does not go trough hit frames, and when this happens I call it "The Slip Carry", where you get carried by an attack and put in a place where you cannot dodge the next one. A good example would be Aglhan's windmill. Things like this are almost constant throughout raids.
  
  Next, Swords lann only has one damaging skill. Its Gliding fury. Crit is EVERYTHING to a lann, especially swords lann. But this also hurts our "dps" class as well, since the effect of crit slows you down a great deal, and you rarely get to use gliding fury without running a high risk of getting your face smashed in.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2012-02-25 19:39

  Quote from OizenX;786545:

  I'm sorry but.
  
  have you even played Swords lann? Here's a few things you'd like to know.
  
  Slip dash isn't as good as you think, its easily thrown off by lag, it cannot avoid fast combos of 3 hits or more, and is useless for long lasting hit boxes. For example, it is nearly impossible to dodge lionotus's double claw + tail swipe with slip dash. It just doesn't work. It also does not go trough hit frames, and when this happens I call it "The Slip Carry", where you get carried by an attack and put in a place where you cannot dodge the next one. A good example would be Aglhan's windmill. Things like this are almost constant throughout raids.
  
  Next, Swords lann only has one damaging skill. Its Gliding fury. Crit is EVERYTHING to a lann, especially swords lann. But this also hurts our "dps" class as well, since the effect of crit slows you down a great deal, and you rarely get to use gliding fury without running a high risk of getting your face smashed in.

  
  
  Basically this. Stop saying sword Lann doesn't need a revamp or he's "OP" or any of that shit if you've never played and maintained a successful sword Lann. And really, "their offense is top notch as well (once again, have to know how to use that slip dash and double crescent)."? A 13k attack Lann with maxed stats would still have a very hard time catching up to a 12k matt Evie spamming just MA, slipdash and double crescent are NOT as good as you think.
  
  Double crescent is prone to lag (sometimes you miss altogether, sometimes you hit the enemy 4 times and makes you slower, the more attacks you send out in one move the slower you return to normal stance), and takes up WAY too much stamina for WAY too low attack power to be useful in near every situation.
  
  Slipdash's 0.3 second invincibility frame can always screw over, whether it's from the SLIGHTEST amount of lag or maybe even something so simple as an object in the way, or taking 2 of glas's laser balls while dodging.
• Lukeal wrote on 2012-02-25 21:26

  Quote from MareneCorp;786639:

  
  
  Double crescent is prone to lag (sometimes you miss altogether, sometimes you hit the enemy 4 times and makes you slower, the more attacks you send out in one move the slower you return to normal stance), and takes up WAY too much stamina for WAY too low attack power to be useful in near every situation.
  
  Slipdash's 0.3 second invincibility frame can always screw over, whether it's from the SLIGHTEST amount of lag or maybe even something so simple as an object in the way, or taking 2 of glas's laser balls while dodging.

  
  
  
  
  Basically this. Doucle crescent takes up way too much stamina. In most situations i find myself having forcefully stop attacking all together to regain lost stam while everyone else keeps spamming and doing damage. Sure those raids are easy for me now but still lann needs a revamp and im sure most people agree. Thats why i think elemental attacks might be a good idea. I can understand that at below 25% hp a 3% damage reduction might be pointless but thats rank F. At rank 6 or so it would be 15% and it if falls below 50%. Reverse twin sword would work to make elemental attacks more powerfull and take full advantage of them. 1 of my ideas was to make it so if you're in reverse twin sword and have lightning on your swords you could hold down the smash button like lanns first smash in normal twin sword except if you held it down long enough it would send a shockwave of electricity in the direction pointed and do the same amount of damag as 2 gliding fury's(rank 6), Constant use would make it weaker and weaker so to not make it abusable you have to wait around 30 seconds before using its full power again. And all these elemental attacks could be applied to thousand needles rank 9 smash, it would make it not so worthless and actually give it more of a reason to use.
• H4kurei wrote on 2012-02-25 22:00

  Quote from OizenX;786545:

  
  Next, Swords lann only has one damaging skill. Its Gliding fury. Crit is EVERYTHING to a lann, especially swords lann. But this also hurts our "dps" class as well, since the effect of crit slows you down a great deal, and you rarely get to use gliding fury without running a high risk of getting your face smashed in.

  
  
  While it's not OP or anything, Sword Lann isn't all that bad, I'd take swords over LS or Scythe
  
  Bear Blower has very decent percentiles (0.266 for both hits, vs GF's 0.24 @ 1000 AGI), and as long as you're familiar with the boss, I find slip dash better than amber or blink. There aren't very many things that are extremely difficult to slip, and combos like Colru's grey pattern 6-punch, AoE balls of death, Ahglan's step combo variations, and Glas's 7 (or 5, or 9, depending on how you want to think about it) hit combo fit pretty well with Slip/Nimble recovery. Of course, there are things like Lion's claw-tail, but if you're not in his face it's not hard to slip, and if you are in his face you're about as screwed as a Staff Evie, whose amber breaks pretty reliably when absorbing that combo
  
  [EDIT] I'm ALWAYS host though, so yeah.. maybe slip sucks bad with lag, I wouldn't know
  
  I think if DC (0.125) took 12 stamina and didn't lag so much when it hits, swords would be set on doing DPS. Honestly, I think a big barrier for damage is speed; I wish GF could be cancelled by slip dash as soon as you stop moving, instead of him standing there for a good half second asking to get slapped. If there was a single change I'd ask for it would be to reduce the length of all of Lann's animations, and remove hit lag
• JinNJuice wrote on 2012-02-25 22:40
  I got an idea, again. Change it from being twin swords/spears as one equip to two separate equips. "Oh no, then Lanns will easily have OPed att stats." Well, they can always lower the stat values.
  
  I had that idea from seeing Fiona having shields and Evie having spellbooks in the "shield" slot. I don't know if Kai has an equip for the shield slot. I would assume it's for quivers. But Lann and Karok could use something to occupy that slot.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2012-02-25 22:42

  Quote from JinNJuice;786746:

  I got an idea, again. Change it from being twin swords/spears as one equip to two separate equips. "Oh no, then Lanns will easily have OPed att stats." Well, they can always lower the stat values.
  
  I had that idea from seeing Fiona having shields and Evie having spellbooks in the "shield" slot. I don't know if Kai has an equip for the shield slot. I would assume it's for quivers. But Lann and Karok could use something to occupy that slot.

  
  
  Not much point in doing that, that'll be difficult to enhance and stuff. Maybe something like an amulet or something to fill the slot.
• JinNJuice wrote on 2012-02-25 22:49
  How do you think it is for Fiona? "Hooray for +10 sword/hammer. Gotta +10 dat shield now." They can also enchant their shields, so...
  
  Also, wouldn't it be more befitting if Lann had a wind element?
• Conor wrote on 2012-02-25 23:53
  omg wasn't i in glas and ingkells with you yesterday?
• Oizen wrote on 2012-02-26 00:09

  Quote from H4kurei;786717:

  While it's not OP or anything, Sword Lann isn't all that bad, I'd take swords over LS or Scythe
  
  Bear Blower has very decent percentiles (0.266 for both hits, vs GF's 0.24 @ 1000 AGI), and as long as you're familiar with the boss, I find slip dash better than amber or blink. There aren't very many things that are extremely difficult to slip, and combos like Colru's grey pattern 6-punch, AoE balls of death, Ahglan's step combo variations, and Glas's 7 (or 5, or 9, depending on how you want to think about it) hit combo fit pretty well with Slip/Nimble recovery. Of course, there are things like Lion's claw-tail, but if you're not in his face it's not hard to slip, and if you are in his face you're about as screwed as a Staff Evie, whose amber breaks pretty reliably when absorbing that combo
  
  [EDIT] I'm ALWAYS host though, so yeah.. maybe slip sucks bad with lag, I wouldn't know
  
  I think if DC (0.125) took 12 stamina and didn't lag so much when it hits, swords would be set on doing DPS. Honestly, I think a big barrier for damage is speed; I wish GF could be cancelled by slip dash as soon as you stop moving, instead of him standing there for a good half second asking to get slapped. If there was a single change I'd ask for it would be to reduce the length of all of Lann's animations, and remove hit lag

  
  Thats nice.
  
  But please try using Pummel Storm on a Raid boss. I'd love to see you try.
  
  Contrary to popular belief among people who argue about things they know nothing about, the raid bosses just don't sit there and wait for you to hit them.
  The reason swords lann spams Double Crescent is because its the fastest skill he has, Pummel storm takes far too long to get to, and you're most likely going to have to cancel the combo up to it or get yourself killed in the process.
  
  Also, this topic is about lann, I don't see the relevance of evie and fiona.
• Lukeal wrote on 2012-02-26 02:07

  Quote from Conor;786792:

  omg wasn't i in glas and ingkells with you yesterday?

  
  
  If you're talking about me idk o-o;;. I dont keep track of people's names on my raids. =O
• Lukeal wrote on 2012-02-26 05:25

  Quote from JinNJuice;786757:

  Wouldn't it be more befitting if Lann had a wind element?

  
  
  I was thinking of that too. If lann had a wind element though idk how it can be applied. My first thought would have been that it increases sword range like trans does but it does only that. Unless we took the fire shield idea and give it to the wind element and call it "windguard" lol.
• H4kurei wrote on 2012-02-26 06:09

  Quote from OizenX;786800:

  Thats nice.
  
  But please try using Pummel Storm on a Raid boss. I'd love to see you try.
  
  Also, this topic is about lann, I don't see the relevance of evie and fiona.

  
  
  I try a couple times here:
  www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFAnMxe1eNg
  It's an old video, and I'd rather have posted some RH solo but you said for me to try
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMD5J_WFqjc&feature=player_embedded
  Probably a better example
  
  Are you saying pummel storm isn't a good source of Sword Lann DPS? What move do you do when there's an opening and you don't need to slip dash?
  
  Evie and Fiona are relevant because we're discussing a revamp in the hopes of balancing one character with the rest of them.
• JinNJuice wrote on 2012-02-26 09:01
  Pummel Storm for movement range. Two chances to crit. If no crit, then no big deal. Somewhat fast recovery.
  
  Thousand Needles for attack range. If no crit, then Slip Dash when needed.
  
  I feel they're both about equal in terms of damage. I would prefer to Thousand Needles, however. Since Lann has no real range, his widest ranged attack is the most important for me.
  
  Also, Bear Blower... Is that the Korean name for Pummel Storm?