Question About a Rule

• Leopher wrote on 2012-03-06 08:11
  This was brought up in the thread about the new staff, but I figured it might be better to ask about it here than to go off topic there.
  
  

  Backseat moderating will result in you receiving the same consequences as the person you were backing moderating against.

  
  
  This seems like it could be a bit extreme were rigorously enforced as the rules are now meant to be.
  
  For example, let's say someone decided to post child porn, which is obviously against the rules. Following this, members reported the crime to moderators but also expressed outrage by posting on the thread telling the poster of the child porn that his actions are not only disturbing but against the rules.
  
  The example, I admit, is rather extreme and unlikely, but I'm using it to make a point. Now, the rules state this on child porn:
  
  

  Do not post content that can be considered child pornography or otherwise sexualization of minors, even if it is of yourself. doing so will not only get you permanently banned on the spot, but reported to law enforcement and/or other organizations in your country of origin that handle such situations.

  
  
  The poster of child porn in our example, as the above rule states, would be perma banned and reported to law enforcement. However, is it true that the backseat modders in our example would also have to be perma banned and reported to law enforcement? That seems to be obviously problematic.
  
  Can someone help me understand?
• Cannibal wrote on 2012-03-06 08:20
  That could all be avoided by simply reporting it.
• Kazuni wrote on 2012-03-06 08:21
  You can't possibly expect people to not react to it.
• Cynic wrote on 2012-03-06 08:22

  Quote from Kazuni;797713:

  You can't possibly expect people to not react to it.

  
  
  ^
  
  I've got to agree with this.
  
  There's nothing wrong with punishing people so they get the idea that reporting > replying, but a permaban for simply saying something like "Uh dude this is against the rules" is just ridiculous.
• Kazuni wrote on 2012-03-06 08:23
  The old policy with backseat modding wasn't so much "uhh this is against the rules", but more for minor things like "belongs in another section" (you don't need to say that), and more serious things like "wow enjoy your infraction and your ban, jerk".
  
  I don't see how you can enforce this rule absolutely.
• Cynic wrote on 2012-03-06 08:26
  Mmmm.. even so. With something like child porn or perhaps something more graphic, I can see how people would be tempted to voice their disgust in a manner that makes it seem like they're backseat modding.
  
  The rule should really be a bit more specific and add some exceptions depending on what rule was initially broken.
• TA wrote on 2012-03-06 08:40
  This rule has actually been present for some time and was not added nor modified in today's changes, in fact it was overlooked that the particular stipulation in question even existed.
  
  I wholly understand your concern in this matter, and I agree. Equal punishment as an offender for backseat modding is a bit too extreme. As such, I have modified the rule to reflect this. The revision is as follows:
  
  

  Do not partake in “backseat moderating”. Use the report button (

  [Image: http://mabination.com/images/buttons/report-40b-hover.png]

  ) for any and all posts, profile messages or private messages you come across that break the rules or are otherwise causing problems.

  
  
  Thank you for bringing up your concern.
• Kazuni wrote on 2012-03-06 08:43
  I don't see how that addresses the problem of someone reacting to someone who posted child pornography or something along those lines.
  
  You're seriously expecting too much if a big problem comes up and you want people to quietly use the report button and say nothing.
• Rin wrote on 2012-03-06 08:55
  Perhaps it should reflect on backseat modding that is forum-specific, not topic-specific.
• TA wrote on 2012-03-06 08:55

  Quote from Kazuni;797760:

  I don't see how that addresses the problem of someone reacting to someone who posted child pornography or something along those lines.
  
  You're seriously expecting too much if a big problem comes up and you want people to quietly use the report button and say nothing.

  
  
  The problem in question with the previous rule was that the forum member attempting to be a good samaritan ends up receiving the same punishment as the trouble maker.
  
  I do believe that "no backseat modding" is a pretty common rule on many forums and exists for very specific reasons, allow me to explain:
  
  When someone quotes something that is breaking the rules and tells someone they are breaking the rules, a few things are happening here:
  1) They are doing the job of a staff member, yet they are not a member of staff and do not have the authority to do so.
  2) They are potentially starting a fight with another member (especially if they were rude in the way they said it).
  3) They are creating more work for the real staff to have to deal with, and potentially fueling a fight (which the staff will in turn have to deal with, and may result in many more punishments to members who would have otherwise gone unpunished, had they not felt provoked)
  
  All in all, the rule is in place to primarily keep order, and then to protect our other users from undue punishment they may incur from stepping into a hostile situation.
  
  When you see someone breaking the rules, it's best to just report it and let a staff member deal with it.
  
  Hopefully you can understand why this type of rule exists.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2012-03-06 09:06

  Quote from Kazuni;797760:

  I don't see how that addresses the problem of someone reacting to someone who posted child pornography or something along those lines.
  
  You're seriously expecting too much if a big problem comes up and you want people to quietly use the report button and say nothing.

  
  
  "backseat moderating" is up to staff discretion.. If a comparable situation ever arose and people responded to it in a way which would be traditionally considered "backseat moderation" the thread would be locked and obvious violations would be handled appropriately.
  
  If you ever feel that you've received poor or otherwise unjust treatment from a moderator you're supposed to follow up with someone else in a staff position. If everyone on the staff team feels that you're at fault, you're in the wrong.
  
  The important thing is to take a second to consider the consequences of your actions. If a staff member warns you for backseat moderation and you cuss the person out, you've just violated another rule.
• Leopher wrote on 2012-03-06 09:28

  Quote from TA;797753:

  This rule has actually been present for some time and was not added nor modified in today's changes, in fact it was overlooked that the particular stipulation in question even existed.
  
  I wholly understand your concern in this matter, and I agree. Equal punishment as an offender for backseat modding is a bit too extreme. As such, I have modified the rule to reflect this.
  
  Thank you for bringing up your concern.

  
  
  Alright, thank you. The revision is reasonable, and I am satisfied.
  
  My main concern previously was that if the rules as they were written were totally maintained it would seem like in the example I described the mods would have no choice but to permanently ban those who spoke out, whereas now instead of a strict "if you backseat mod you get the same punishment as the person you backseat mod against", the punishment for backseat modding in any given situation is left at the discretion of the moderators, which seems preferable.
• Loopulse wrote on 2012-03-06 10:15

  Quote from TA;797753:

  This rule has actually been present for some time and was not added nor modified in today's changes, in fact it was overlooked that the particular stipulation in question even existed.
  
  I wholly understand your concern in this matter, and I agree. Equal punishment as an offender for backseat modding is a bit too extreme. As such, I have modified the rule to reflect this. The revision is as follows:
  
  
  
  Thank you for bringing up your concern.

  
  
  So there's no big punishment or whatever, but more of a "Do it this way please or people will call you out" sort of thing?
• TA wrote on 2012-03-06 14:43

  Quote from Loopulse;797922:

  So there's no big punishment or whatever, but more of a "Do it this way please or people will call you out" sort of thing?

  
  
  There'll be a punishment. It'll start small, but if you have a bad habit of repeatedly doing it, then the punishments are going to get harsher until it's resoundingly clear.
• Scarlet wrote on 2012-03-06 21:46
  [I][FONT="Times New Roman"]Hmm...
  Let's say as an example, I see a thread in the wrong section. Do I just ignore it, or do I report it? And if someone's being somewhat rude, or offensive without realizing it, shouldn't say anything and just report it? It seems a bit over the top to report everything =/[/FONT][/I]