Grievance towards one of our rules (Warning: Bad words)

• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-18 10:03
  This is not a complaint towards the staff, it's mainly a discussion on one of our rules.
  
  I was recently infracted for posting
  
  

  
  Sure, but physical copies are OP n*gga

  
  after Jerain put
  

  On the Internet, everything is free.

  
  
  I am pretty much going to say what I said to Ithi.
  
  I don't see what the point of removing the word censor was for because you guys seem to dismiss the other bad terms, while having a no tolerance rule for two.
  
  This rule seems to be based on "what ifs"
  
  

  A lack of the finer social graces or simply ignorance is no excuse for posting blatantly offensive and/or intolerant messages or bluntly in a manner that could be considered in poor taste (at the Staff's discretion).

  
  
  I'm sorry but.. this goes for ALL curse words.
  
  There is no excuse for saying any curse word ever, it lacks finer social graces and are highly offensive to a good amount of people.
  
  So why do we allow them?
  Because they're mild?
  
  So is nigga
  
  If someone truly wanted to piss someone off and be hateful about it, they'd go ahead and add the er at the end.
  
  "But it's still is a derogatory term"
  
  so is bitch
  
  "But it's not always that way"
  
  neither is "Nigga"
  
  Let's say someone called you a bitch, I guess a lot of people would be highly offended.
  
  But let's say someone called you a "bish" or "betch"
  
  you're either not going to take them seriously, or think they're retarded.
  
  tl;dr
  
  There is no good reason to ever use curse words.
  But we do.
  Which is fine, because words don't do shit.
  And when we start banning things because some people are offended by it, while being relaxed on other things, it just makes the people who banned it in the first place look stupid.
  
  Being offended by something is absolutely meaningless.
  The whole rule is based on "what ifs"
  "What if someone goes on a racist/homophobic flaming spree, or uses it in a negative way"
  
  well What if someone uses all of the curse words that are "okay" and goes on a flaming spree?
  
  It would just as bad.
  
  
  Feel free to put your two cents in as you please.
• Cannibal wrote on 2012-03-18 10:09
  I honestly agree. Ban ALL the derogatory words, or don't ban any of them at all.
  
  I've thought a lot of this through. What about retard? That can really hurt someone's feelings. It's derogatory. It's just like fa.ggot. You hear people say all the time, "Don't use the word retard." I actually hear people say that more than "Don't use the word fa.ggot." Why isn't retard censored?
  
  As for the whole "nigga" thing, what about Spick? What about Beaner, Coon, Jap, Chink, Gook, Cracker, Honky, Heeb?
• Cynic wrote on 2012-03-18 10:15
  Well, if derogatory terms are bad, then we may as-well ban stupid/idiot as-well, since technically it's just as bad as bitch.
  
  The F and N words are personal terms used to offend specific people. Bitch hasn't been a female-exclusive term for decades.
  If you disagree, let's look at the literal definitons;
  
  B-word:
  

  The word "bitch", literally meaning a female dog, is a common slang term in the English language, especially used as a denigrating term applied to a person, commonly a woman. It often refers to someone who is belligerent, unreasonable, rudely intrusive or aggressive.
  
  Its original use as a vulgarism, documented to the fourteenth century, suggested high sexual desire in a woman, comparable to a dog in heat. The range of meanings has expanded in modern usage

  
  
  Note how it never states that it is a female-exclusive term, but rather one that may be commonly applied to women, but not primarily.
  
  
  Now, let's look at the other two;
  
  F-word:
  

  ******, often shortened to ***, is a pejorative term and common slur used chiefly in North America against homosexual males.[3] Its pejorative use, broadly meaning a "repellent male",[4] has spread from the United States to varying extents elsewhere in the English-speaking world through mass culture, including movies, music, and the Internet.

  
  
  Note how it does not mention anything about how the term has been expanded to mean something else, or that using it to insult a gay person is no longer common. This is because is is primarily used as a bad word against gay people. Alternative usage of the term is not even at a common level.
  
  
  N-word:
  

  ****** is a noun in the English language, most notable for its usage in a pejorative context to refer to black people (generally people of Sub-Saharan African descent), and also as an informal slang term, among other contexts.

  
  While somewhat similar to the b-word, note how it only mentions it's other usage as a slang term. And while this is a big step up compared to the f-word, it's common knowledge that the slang term is typically only used by black people to refer to one another. If a non-black person tries saying the n-word to a black person, chances are they'll get their asses kicked.
  
  
  If you still don't get my point, think of it this way;
  If a woman gets insulted by the b-word, is it because it's insulting her as a woman, or is it because it's insulting her as if someone called her an idiot or an asshole? Furthermore, how many women do you know who would get offended in that way by the term?
  
  Compare the number of people who use the b-word to the number of people who get offended by it.
  Then, compare the number of people who use the f-word and compare the number of people who get offended by it.
  
  Then you'll see why the b-word is so different from the f-word and the n-word.
• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-18 10:21

  Quote from Cynic;811251:

  Well, if derogatory terms are bad, then we may as-well ban stupid/idiot as-well, since technically it's just as bad as bitch.
  
  The F and N words are personal terms used to offend specific people. Bitch hasn't been a female-exclusive term for decades.
  If you disagree, let's look at the literal definitons;
  
  B-word:
  
  
  Note how it never states that it is a female-exclusive term, but rather one that may be commonly applied to women, but not primarily.
  
  
  Now, let's look at the other two;
  
  F-word:
  
  
  Note how it does not mention anything about how the term has been expanded to mean something else, or that using it to insult a gay person is no longer common. This is because is is primarily used as a bad word against gay people. Alternative usage of the term is not even at a common level.
  
  
  N-word:
  
  While somewhat similar to the b-word, note how it only mentions it's other usage as a slang term. And while this is a big step up compared to the f-word, it's common knowledge that the slang term is typically only used by black people to refer to one another. If a non-black person tries saying the n-word to a black person, chances are they'll get their asses kicked.
  
  
  If you still don't get my point, think of it this way;
  If a woman gets insulted by the b-word, is it because it's insulting her as a woman, or is it because it's insulting her as if someone called her an idiot or an asshole? Furthermore, how many women do you know who would get offended in that way by the term?
  
  Compare the number of people who use the b-word to the number of people who get offended by it.
  Then, compare the number of people who use the f-word and compare the number of people who get offended by it.
  
  Then you'll see why the b-word is so different from the f-word and the n-word.

  
  
  But it doesn't change the fact that it's still deragatory.
  I remember my friend said "It's wrong because the black and gays are still being discriminated"
  as if women aren't
  
  Isn't *** used as the term for the end of a cigarette or something?
  
  but that's still censored
  
  I bitch can be highly offensive if it's used in an offensive way.
  
  Calling someone a derogatory word =/= Saying the term in general
  
  I called a jar a nigga the other day because I couldn't open the damn thing
  
  I only think it should be a problem if it is used in the means to harm someone else.
• Kyubey wrote on 2012-03-18 10:33
  Just copy paste nexon censor list and prob solved.
  
  Jokes aside i think mods should look at the context of the sentence before spreading infractions. Some derrogatory terms can be commonly used without having anybody as target like OP example
• Cynic wrote on 2012-03-18 10:40
  I don't doubt that there's still some women who are offended by it, but what I meant was it's not commonly used against women anymore. And more importantly, it doesn't offend women in that way anymore. I used to hate the term when I was little, until I learned the only reason most people got offended was not because it was insulting them as a woman, but rather because it insulted them as if they had been called an asshole or some other term.
  
  If we went around censoring every little world that offended someone, we'd have to censor wayyy too many words. Which is why most places only censor words that offend a majority of people and/or are still commonly used as a specific, offensive term. The n-word is kind of iffy, since it's not as commonly used as the f-word, but some African Americans still get very offended by it.
  
  I get that it's all about context, but think of it this way-- if we were back in the 1940's or whenever, where bitch was still highly offensive and demeaning toward women, and some guy went around saying bitch to whomever, then some woman got offended by it. The guy states "well I didn't mean it in that way", but everyone knows that bitch is primarily used in a negative way against women. Would you side with him, or with the women? Should he have known better and used an alternative term instead (which is easily done), or should women suddenly stop getting offended by the term?
  
  One of the bigger issues is that, even if meant in a harmless way, using the f-word kind of promotes the usage of it. Kind of how people don't like it when some people say "that's so gay", since it implies gay = bad. Using the f-word is kind of similar, since it implies also implies that being gay = bad. Since that's what the f-word means.
  
  I get that using the f-word might be a bad habit to break, but hopefully you at-least understand how it's silly to say "but I didn't mean it in that way" when the literal definition of the term is a bad word for gay people.
  That'd be like me calling someone a turnip but saying that I meant something else. Why call someone a term when you mean something completely different?
  
  
  Don't get me wrong, I get what'cha mean, it's just hard to censor every single word that could offend someone without censoring a huge amount of words. The current system of censoring words that are offensive to a large majority is really the best you can do.
• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-18 10:43

  Quote from Cynic;811259:

  I don't doubt that there's still some women who are offended by it, but what I meant was it's not commonly used against women anymore. And more importantly, it doesn't offend women in that way anymore. I used to hate the term when I was little, until I learned the only reason most people got offended was not because it was insulting them as a woman, but rather because it insulted them as if they had been called an asshole or some other term.
  
  If we went around censoring every little world that offended someone, we'd have to censor wayyy too many words. Which is why most places only censor words that offend a majority of people and/or are still commonly used as a specific, offensive term. The n-word is kind of iffy, since it's not as commonly used as the f-word, but some African Americans still get very offended by it.
  
  I get that it's all about context, but think of it this way-- if we were back in the 1940's or whenever, where bitch was still highly offensive and demeaning toward women, and some guy went around saying bitch to whomever, then some woman got offended by it. The guy states "well I didn't mean it in that way", but everyone knows that bitch is primarily used in a negative way against women. Would you side with him, or with the women? Should he have known better and used an alternative term instead (which is easily done), or should women suddenly stop getting offended by the term?
  
  One of the bigger issues is that, even if meant in a harmless way, using the f-word kind of promotes the usage of it. Kind of how people don't like it when some people say "that's so gay", since it implies gay = bad. Using the f-word is kind of similar, since it implies also implies that being gay = bad. Since that's what the f-word means.
  
  I get that using the f-word might be a bad habit to break, but hopefully you at-least understand how it's silly to say "but I didn't mean it in that way" when the literal definition of the term is a bad word for gay people.
  That'd be like me calling someone a turnip but saying that I meant something else. Why call someone a term when you mean something completely different?
  
  
  Don't get me wrong, I get what'cha mean, it's just hard to censor every single word that could offend someone without censoring a huge amount of words. The current system of censoring words that are offensive to a large majority is really the best you can do.

  
  Oh, but I understand where you're coming from.
  and trust me
  I DO NOT NOT NEVER EVER NEVER WANT THE WORD FILTER BACK
  
  but like Kyubey said
  you have to look at the way it was used.. not just the word its self
  
  the main thing I HATE about the rule is the

  (at the Staff's discretion).

  part
  
  it's pretty much
  
  "If I'm offended by it, INFRACT.
  If not, it's k"
  
  
  edit: ignore my typos
  I go into a typo frenzy when I'm tired
• Cynic wrote on 2012-03-18 10:49
  My question still stands, though-- why use the f-word when you mean something different?
  
  It's kind of silly to get mad when people scold you for using a word with a completely different context. Just use a different word instead. No reason to go out of your way to use a bad word when you mean something else + in a non-negative way. If you want to call someone a radish, call them a radish. Don't call them a carrot when you don't actually mean carrot.
  
  That's the main issue I personally have with it. I can't speak for everyone else, though.
• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-18 10:55

  Quote from Cynic;811261:

  My question still stands, though-- why use the f-word when you mean something different?
  
  It's kind of silly to get mad when people scold you for using a word with a completely different context. Just use a different word instead. No reason to go out of your way to use a bad word when you mean something else + in a non-negative way. If you want to call someone a radish, call them a radish. Don't call them a carrot when you don't actually mean carrot.
  
  That's the main issue I personally have with it. I can't speak for everyone else, though.

  
  
  Well, I feel a bit different about the F word because nigga can be used for a lot of things
  Nigga = mother
  brother
  cousin
  uncle
  sister
  grandma
  aunt niece
  daughter
  happy
  sad
  angry
  excited
  scared
  and a million other things
  
  while ***.. not so much another other than another word for "gay" which is thrown around a lot too
  
  I say it out of habit from being around friends that said it non stop
  
  
  Nigga isn't really that much different from bitch
  it was used to do harm (well really ****** was)
  but took the shape of something else after the years
  it's not always a bad thing
  
  "Guess who I saw the other day?"
  "My friend I haven't seen since senior year"
  "Nigga, you serious?"
  "Yeah, Nigga, I'm serious!"
• Medusa wrote on 2012-03-18 11:18
  it's a matter of severity. if someone says ass, you're going to be hard pressed to find someone who gets offended or feels uncomfortable. you start whipping around the n word, with or without the r at the end, and there are going to be significantly more people feeling weird. it's super cool that you feel comfortable calling everyone that, but there are less people around you comfortable with it than if you were using a swear with a little less gravity.
  
  i think i've said this to you before, in a thread with almost an identical purpose, but i'll reiterate in case my memory is failing me. swears have different levels of gravity. just because you don't think so doesn't make it any less true. good for you for being able to view everything on a level playing field and all that, but that doesn't mean it actually is level. if i called you bitchy, i doubt you'd give it a second thought. if, on the other hand, i call you a cunt, that's going to have a bigger impact to it.
  
  this is just my view on it, i'm not trying to speak for the staff or anything. it's their rule on their site, so of course it's going to be at their discretion.
  i also apologize for any weird trains of thought, i am loooong past due here...
• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-18 11:24

  Quote from Medusa;811270:

  it's a matter of severity. if someone says ass, you're going to be hard pressed to find someone who gets offended or feels uncomfortable. you start whipping around the n word, with or without the r at the end, and there are going to be significantly more people feeling weird. it's super cool that you feel comfortable calling everyone that, but there are less people around you comfortable with it than if you were using a swear with a little less gravity.
  
  i think i've said this to you before, in a thread with almost an identical purpose, but i'll reiterate in case my memory is failing me. swears have different levels of gravity. just because you don't think so doesn't make it any less true. good for you for being able to view everything on a level playing field and all that, but that doesn't mean it actually is level. if i called you bitchy, i doubt you'd give it a second thought. if, on the other hand, i call you a cunt, that's going to have a bigger impact to it.
  
  this is just my view on it, i'm not trying to speak for the staff or anything. it's their rule on their site, so of course it's going to be at their discretion.
  i also apologize for any weird trains of thought, i am loooong past due here...

  
  
  I don't even see how ass even qualifies as a swear word tbh
  
  and your bitch/cunt example would be great, if it didn't apply for the n-words also
  which is worse
  nigga or ******?
  
  "You're a nigga"
  vs
  "You're a n[SIZE="2"]i[/SIZE]gger"
  
  there's a major difference there
  
  if someone calls someone a nigga, I doubt they'd be offended.
  
  but if someone calls someone a ******... that's going to piss someone off.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2012-03-18 11:42
  Stopped at words don' t do crap. That's where you are sorely mistaken. Words are extremely powerful tools that can bring peace, happiness, war, depression, and can sway a person. Language is extremely powerful. Never underestimate it.
• Hannah's Lover wrote on 2012-03-18 11:53

  Quote from Kingofrunes;811281:

  Stopped at words don' t do crap. That's where you are sorely mistaken. Words are extremely powerful tools that can bring peace, happiness, war, depression, and can sway a person. Language is extremely powerful. Never underestimate it.

  
  I should have been more specific, swear words don't mean anything.
• Osayidan wrote on 2012-03-18 13:05
  The difference between "fuck" or "bitch" and "nigga" (and all the other racial slurs) is the presence of discrimination.
  While "fuck you" can be said to anyone, racial slurs were conceived to be offensive to a specific group, the same goes for homophobic terms. We don't get complaints about someone expressing their anger at something by saying "fuck this shit" but we do get complaints about racially offensive words. It all comes down to what's socially acceptable to north american culture. While you might use that word with your friends and no ones offended, if you went a bit further north and walked into a bar and said "what's up my niggas" to a bunch of black guys, with all the friendliest intentions in the world, you might not walk out in one piece.
• Kyubey wrote on 2012-03-18 14:51
  Doesn't mean much, i can say americunts and offend an entire nation. And look, not censored