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Science wrote on 2012-04-20 01:24
Quote from Shanghai;843149:
Humans are naturally in a constant search for their purpose in life. Finding a higher being is one of those searches.
If religion didn't' exist, there wouldn't be a set form of moral ethics that society can generally agree with. Everyone would follow what was right to them, and that can get things out of hand really quickly.
I agree with this pretty much. Most governments aren't theocracies now, but most laws are based on some sort of ethics set by religion.
I don't think the world would be better or worse without religion, but I think things would've played out differently if people did not have religions to follow. I think scientific advancement and gains in knowledge would flow in at the same rate, but like other people said, the unification of peoples wouldn't happen as easily if they didn't have a common factor binding them together in a deeper-than-normal way.
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Sedia wrote on 2012-04-20 01:26
I always thought it would be a so-so world without religion. I mean sure, there are those who take parts from the Bible, change them up a bit in their minds, and then throw them out into the public in the form of protests,videos etc. Religion does goes a long way and it's been that way for centuries. I'm not a big fan of the Christian religion, not because of atheism/Paganism, but because of the controversial issues people make a fuss about. I'd also like for people to keep their beliefs private. But you know, there will always be two sides fighting. And religion will be the main conflict.
Oh, and on the subject of not being a fan of Christianity, it's people like the Republicans (you know which one I'm talking about) that really make me upset and it's those people who grew up with a mindset that: "If the Bible doesn't say X, I guess I can fill in that little space and claim what I think is true to be true!".
Well that's what I thought anyways.
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TA wrote on 2012-04-20 01:29
Are you asking in the sense that it never came about at all, or if it were one day phased out entirely due to some various reason or another (perhaps definitive proof that we evolved, and exactly how the creation of the universe happened, and etc. so absolute that even complete fools wouldn't accept it)?
It's hard to say if it had never happened. We'd certainly be at least a thousand years more technologically advanced right now, and that's always a good thing. I think human nature would have had to of been different to not come to primitive conclusions about things they couldn't understand though, so I'm not sure what that would mean.
I'll assume you mean that a world when one day there is no longer religion; I think a world without religion would be great. I'm not saying a world without morality and compassion (which is sadly what believers tend to directly equate religion to), but simply a logical world ruled by science and reason.
I'll tell you right now, from a scientist's perspective, the Dark Ages never ended. We're still being heavily repressed by religious views in our research, and what we can and cannot do because of it. Even without the 1000 year gap from the Dark Ages taken into account, even without religion today, we would be progressing forward so much faster than we are now.
Things like a lack of blood or organ donors would be a thing of the past if we could have human cloning factories for harvesting them (keeping in mind for the morally offended, that they would be completely brain dead shells). And that's just the start... we could go so far beyond that, and so many human trials and tests that could speed up research 10 fold or more if we could test directly on cloned subjects rather than the decades of precautions needed before anything ever sees the light of day. And that's just the tip of the iceberg...
We would probably be immortal by now, and could make designer children. As a species, we would become smarter, stronger, and faster. Population would have to be controlled in some way, but I won't speculate on that. We'll just assume that a good system is worked out for that.
There are so many deaths that could be prevented, so much quality of life that could be improved... and this is purely from a medical perspective.
When you get into all of the hate and war and senseless killing that occurs... those numbers skyrocket yet again.
Religion may have been useful to our species at one point, but it stopped being useful centuries ago. Religion has no place within a logical society. Faith is a synonym for reliance. It is an act for the weak. We, as a species, would be much stronger without such a reliance; we could forge a future for ourselves, and declare our own rules and our own possibilities, and discover our own past. We should never have to be told these things, nor should we ever bow to another... never.
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MareneCorp wrote on 2012-04-20 01:38
That's... probably the most logical responce to any question I've read. rep'd
Back on topic, I feel like I agree with TA. Scientific advancements have been impeded by the question of religious (and non-religious in some cases) ethics, we can be more scientifically advanced, but this is assuming religion just poofs in the future, where we no longer have a need to unify people through a heavy belief.
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paladin wrote on 2012-04-20 01:40
Quote from TA;843166:
Are you asking in the sense that it never came about at all, or if it were one day phased out entirely due to some various reason or another (perhaps definitive proof that we evolved, and exactly how the creation of the universe happened, and etc. so absolute that even complete fools wouldn't accept it)?
It's hard to say if it had never happened. We'd certainly be at least a thousand years more technologically advanced right now, and that's always a good thing. I think human nature would have had to of been different to not come to primitive conclusions about things they couldn't understand though, so I'm not sure what that would mean.
I'll assume you mean that a world when one day there is no longer religion; I think a world without religion would be great. I'm not saying a world without morality and compassion (which is sadly what believers tend to directly equate religion to), but simply a logical world ruled by science and reason.
I'll tell you right now, from a scientist's perspective, the Dark Ages never ended. We're still being heavily repressed by religious views in our research, and what we can and cannot do because of it. Even without the 1000 year gap from the Dark Ages taken into account, even without religion today, we would be progressing forward so much faster than we are now.
Things like a lack of blood or organ donors would be a thing of the past if we could have human cloning factories for harvesting them (keeping in mind for the morally offended, that they would be completely brain dead shells). And that's just the start... we could go so far beyond that, and so many human trials and tests that could speed up research 10 fold or more if we could test directly on cloned subjects rather than the decades of precautions needed before anything ever sees the light of day. And that's just the tip of the iceberg...
We would probably be immortal by now, and could make designer children. As a species, we would become smarter, stronger, and faster. Population would have to be controlled in some way, but I won't speculate on that. We'll just assume that a good system is worked out for that.
There are so many deaths that could be prevented, so much quality of life that could be improved... and this is purely from a medical perspective.
When you get into all of the hate and war and senseless killing that occurs... those numbers skyrocket yet again.
Religion may have been useful to our species at one point, but it stopped being useful centuries ago. Religion has no place within a logical society. Faith is a synonym for reliance. It is an act for the weak. We, as a species, would be much stronger without such a reliance; we could forge a future for ourselves, and declare our own rules and our own possibilities, and discover our own past. We should never have to be told these things, nor should we ever bow to another... never.
That, People have to find something to replace reliance otherwise religion will never fully disappear. Reliance itself is not bad,but it causes issues in the form of culture conflict
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Science wrote on 2012-04-20 01:43
Quote from paladin;843186:
That, People have to find something to replace reliance otherwise religion will never fully disappear. Reliance itself is not bad,but it causes issues in the form of culture conflict
Well, forms of faith with never fully disappear, but going on with what TA said, in the world we live in now, religion isn't really necessary since all it does is hold us back. And I read an article somewhere that if everyone in the world suddenly gained 100 points in IQ, most of the world would no longer believe in any type of religion. So I think faith would be pretty phased out if the world had time to advance even more, but the absence of religion at a time like now would eventually phase out religion completely.
imo
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Sinned wrote on 2012-04-20 01:44
It's impossible. Simply put:
For us to exist and realize we exist, we learn mortality.
We then look at what is the opposite mortality: immortality.
There begins the quest for a religion as a comfort zone to feel that there's actual a reason to living.
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RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-04-20 02:50
Haven't read through the replies, will just leave a quick post.
Without religion, some people going through hard times would fall apart knowing they have nothing to look forward to in life. In that sense, it can be a very positive thing.
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Kayate wrote on 2012-04-20 02:53
It won't stop wars there will always be somthing
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Episkey wrote on 2012-04-20 03:07
Quote from Science;843191:
And I read an article somewhere that if everyone in the world suddenly gained 100 points in IQ, most of the world would no longer believe in any type of religion.
Interesting. But, I wonder how their EQ (Emotional quotient) scores would fair? :chin:
Also going with the whole pathos route, like RebeccaBlack said, many people rely on their spiritual beliefs to help them get through the day.
Semi on topic:
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]Some have expressed that having said beliefs is for weak-minded. However, I disagree.
For starters, not all aspects of religious beliefs are comforting. For example, Hell. If someone was "weak-minded", why believe in something like that? It certainly causes some dissonance and possible internal conflict. Yet, almost every single major belief system has some form of a Hell.
In addition, why would people believe a God who is holy? Such a God would be at odds with people’s natural desires and practices. In fact, such a God would seem to be the last type of god they would come up with. Instead, one would expect people to create a god that nods in agreement with the things they naturally want to do instead of opposing the practices that they themselves label as “sinful.â€[/SPOILER]
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TA wrote on 2012-04-20 03:44
Quote from Episkey;843291:
Interesting. But, I wonder how their EQ (Emotional quotient) scores would fair? :chin:
The same bullshit argument again that we've all heard regurgitated a thousand times.
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]
Quote from TA;843166:
I think a world without religion would be great. I'm not saying a world without morality and compassion (which is sadly what believers tend to directly equate religion to), but simply a logical world ruled by science and reason.
[/SPOILER]
Don't delude yourself into believing Atheists are somehow morally and emotionally inferior. Belief in a deity changes nothing in that regard. In fact, we've seen the polar opposite:
[Image: http://i.minus.com/j7XXyFNrTsvJd.jpg]
In the provided example, we can demonstrate that these human sacrifices were
a direct result of religion. I think we can all see how well
that worked out. And we all know the massive moral high horse religious followers are on today.
Belief is dangerous. A belief is absolute. A belief cannot change. People will fight wars and kill over their beliefs. Take beliefs out of the equation and what we are left with are ideas. Ideas are transmutable. Changeable. They do not suffer the same shortcoming. It is the way of a logical intellectual society.
As for the latter part of your post: It is the direct result of being faced with the concept of being alive and having to die. It is a coping mechanism; a reliance.
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Episkey wrote on 2012-04-20 04:00
Quote from TA;843319:
The same bullshit argument again that we've all heard regurgitated a thousand times.
Don't delude yourself into believing Atheists are somehow morally and emotionally inferior. Belief in a deity changes nothing in that regard.
Oh. Thanks for the advice, I'm glad those who believe Atheists are morally and emotionally inferior will benefit from your post.
e.g. Not me. Since I don't believe that :/
My statement concerning EQ was simply a retort about how having a higher IQ is necessarily better. Since I believe that EQ and IQ are both important, if not equally as such. In hindsight, I probably should have outright stated that.
Quote from TA;843319:
In the provided example, we can demonstrate that these human sacrifices were a direct result of religion. I think we can all see how well that worked out.
Which is why I'm so glad I engage in human sacrifice. Like seriously, every day of the week. Twice on Sundays.
Yes, human sacrifice was in part due to the creation of
some religion. But don't blanket that to involve
all religions.
I'm glad the Judeo-Chrsitian God differed in not asking for human sacrifices and in calling it an abomination.
Quote from TA;843319:
Belief is dangerous. A belief is absolute. A belief cannot change. People will fight wars and kill over their beliefs. Take beliefs out of the equation and what we are left with are ideas. Ideas are transmutable. Changeable. They do not suffer the same shortcoming. It is the way of a logical intellectual society.
Whereas I agree with your latter part of your post, beliefs are ... dangerous? Because of the fact they don't change?
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TA wrote on 2012-04-20 04:32
Quote from Episkey;843328:
Yes, human sacrifice was in part due to the creation of some religion. But don't blanket that to involve all religions.
Unfortunately, this isn't a debate over the Judeo-Christian god and subsequent religions. And even if it were, those religions have already claimed so many lives that it would be ridiculous to argue that they haven't.
I can tell you, Atheists sure as hell wouldn't have marched on the promised land. Hell, the land of Israel is still being bloodied
to this day over those silly religious beliefs.
Quote from Episkey;843328:
I'm glad the Judeo-Chrsitian God differed in not asking for human sacrifices and in calling it an abomination.
That's funny...
[spoiler]Considering the symbol of said religion....
[Image: http://i.minus.com/jbmWBjkoLGin0i.jpg]
...happens to be a human sacrifice.
...and the biggest tenant of said religion happens to be a human sacrifice for religious benefit (e.g. "removal of sin").
:chin:[/spoiler]
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NomadTrooper wrote on 2012-04-20 06:46
Ok, I've seen enough people stoking TA's ego here.
Let look at the war in Iraq: If it is truly a war for oil, with no religion. We would simply carpet bomb everyone. There lives mean nothing, we getoil and can advance quicker.
Science would progress much faster. Corporations can now experiment freely on criminals.
The only crime now is intolerance. Which is basically thought crimes.
There is now a cast system based on wealth, intelligence and genetics. There is a small chance to change your cast, but your children will be in your old cast, if you are permitted to breed.
Everyone over 60 is euthanized.
Everyone with genetic defects is sterilized.
Anyone with untreatable health problems will be evaluated on their value to society, and if they need to be euthanized.
Schooling is now catered to your cast, you will have a yearly evaluation to see if you are more fitted to a certain task until the age of 14. Which you will get your permanent assignment.
Oh yeah, tons of lives would be saved. They'd just be standing on the mounds of dead bodies of those seen as unfit. Keep in mind that it's religion that gave us the idea that all men are created equal.
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TA wrote on 2012-04-20 07:13
Quote from NomadTrooper;843463:
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]Ok, I've seen enough people stoking TA's ego here.
Let look at the war in Iraq: If it is truly a war for oil, with no religion. We would simply carpet bomb everyone. There lives mean nothing, we getoil and can advance quicker.
Science would progress much faster. Corporations can now experiment freely on criminals.
The only crime now is intolerance. Which is basically thought crimes.
There is now a cast system based on wealth, intelligence and genetics. There is a small chance to change your cast, but your children will be in your old cast, if you are permitted to breed.
Everyone over 60 is euthanized.
Everyone with genetic defects is sterilized.
Anyone with untreatable health problems will be evaluated on their value to society, and if they need to be euthanized.
Schooling is now catered to your cast, you will have a yearly evaluation to see if you are more fitted to a certain task until the age of 14. Which you will get your permanent assignment.
Oh yeah, tons of lives would be saved. They'd just be standing on the mounds of dead bodies of those seen as unfit. Keep in mind that it's religion that gave us the idea that all men are created equal.[/SPOILER]
Ridiculous scenarios are ridiculous. Sensationalism at its finest.
You obviously have an unrealistic skewed perspective where you believe everything good about humanity comes from religion, and upon removing it we would all revert to immoral despicable creatures that do horrible things to one another.
That goes without saying, you obviously have a horrible opinion of the non-religious. The fictitious scenarios presented are too biased and absurd to take seriously. It's the same damn thing yet again...
"Don't delude yourself into believing Atheists are somehow morally and emotionally inferior. Belief in a deity changes nothing in that regard."