Putting points on Steal (Kai Dark knight)?

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elitehole wrote on 2012-07-31 20:27

I was wondering if I should put points on Steal on my Kai. It seems super delicious when you Eagle eye assault with maxed steal. Only bad thing is that you can only use 3-4 eagle assault in 2 minute transform time. So anyone with maxed steal can tell me how much ATT is absorbed from eagle eye assault? Worth putting points on STEAL?
Oizen wrote on 2012-07-31 21:15

I'd really only say steal is worth the points as a Spear lann.

Steal really doesn't give as much attack as it says it does. I'm pretty sure Eagle Eye isnt even a smash, as far as I know Kais only smashes are his kicks and magnum. I'll see if I can test this later.
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-07-31 21:40

I find Steal a waste for anyone. It gives way less than advertised. Like, it's not even a noteworthy skill. The problem is you'll have to take some crappy skills no matter what because of how the point system works.

Resistance is almost always better. Even Revelation: Stamina is probably better and it's pretty bad.

I recommend something like this, but maybe take one out of steal and put it into stamina if you like even though it won't really do anything. You could also take 1 out of encroach and save it for the third DK level if you're afraid they won't reset the points when the time comes.

[Image: http://i.minus.com/ibgFyz5By2qYoN.png]

It could be argued that resistance isn't so useful for defense stacked spears, and that they might benefit from the minimal stamina gain more to potentially get one extra spin in, but it's a risky investment for something that might not even mean anything.

Regen can give a maximum of 1.8K HP over 60 seconds, but who cares when you'll have like 8K+ HP anyway? You're not dying in second trans unless you do something incredibly dumb or get hit so hard the regen won't matter. It was easier to justify back when willpower didn't add HP, but now your health pool will be enormous.
elitehole wrote on 2012-07-31 22:10

Yes,eagle eye assault is a smash skill...
I was planning on giving up the points on Revelation: Stamina to add Encroach since I don't need that much STAM. The only thing I liked about STEAL is when the amount of ATT absorbed with just 1 point on STEAL, so I am wondering will the ATT increase by a huge amount if I max steal
Oizen wrote on 2012-08-01 02:56

Quote from RebeccaBlack;923238:

Resistance is almost always better. Even Revelation: Stamina is probably better and it's pretty bad.

The thing about stamina is that you should either leave it alone, or max it.

The main issue is that if you run by another Dark Knight with the better stam buff, his buff will over write yours. and you'll lose the skill after a few seconds all together.
Invertex wrote on 2012-08-01 03:03

Quote from OizenX;923519:
The thing about stamina is that you should either leave it alone, or max it.

The main issue is that if you run by another Dark Knight with the better stam buff, his buff will over write yours. and you'll lose the skill after a few seconds all together.

Revelation: Stamina is the 2nd Trans stamina regen per 5 seconds skill. It's largely useless, but so is everything else at that point.

It's probably best to rank skills for once you hit Lv. 40 Trans regardless.
Oizen wrote on 2012-08-01 03:08

Quote from Invertex;923525:
Revelation: Stamina is the 2nd Trans stamina regen per 5 seconds skill. It's largely useless, but so is everything else at that point.

It's probably best to rank skills for once you hit Lv. 40 Trans regardless.

I quoted him for some odd reason. I meant to have that be a stand alone statement. I'm talking about Revelation: Aura.

The huge useless (if not 5/5) stam boost for dark Knights.
Invertex wrote on 2012-08-01 03:42

Well, the thing is even with how "useless" it is, we can do everything through process of elimination.

The first row you want the HP and Att skills at 3/3. You're at 6 points now.
At the second row you'll get 5/5 Resistance and 3/3 SP gain. This puts you at 14.
At this point you invest a single point into 2nd Stage, putting you at 15.
You then get 3/3 in the stats, leaving you at 18 points.

Now this is the first dead end. You need to get to 20 points spent to continue to the 2nd Stage skills. So your choices here are Steal or Aura. Now 30 Stam is probably better than the paltry Att from Steal, so 2/5 in Aura.

3/3 on 2nd Stage Att and HP, so you're now at 26 points.
1/1 on Fissure and 3/3 on SP gain, so that's 30 points.
1/5 on Regeneration for the prerequisite. Now you're only at 31 points and need 35 to go to the next level of skills.

This second dead end is more open ended. Once again you can take Steal or Aura. But 2nd Stage Stamina and 2nd Stage Regen are also available. Given that you need to invest a total of 4 points amongst these 4 skills.

Steal we've ruled out as mostly useless as Kai does not need projectiles, and the Att is barely there. 2nd Stage Regen we've stated is useless when you already get 8k HP in 2nd Stage. So that leaves Aura and Stamina.

2 Stamina Every 5 Seconds per rank or 30 Stamina per rank. Given Kai's amazing base stamina regen rate and his relatively stable consumption of stamina, I'm heavily inclined to believe that the lesser evil is putting 3 points into Aura and dumping the last point into Stamina Regen. This leaves you at 35 (letting you get the stat boosts and Enroach), and gives you 5/5 Aura and 1/5 Stamina.

Frankly while it may be a 0/5 or 5/5 skill, you're comparing 2/5 Aura to 2/5 Steal. That's really obvious. Then we're comparing 5/5 Aura + 1/5 Stamina to 2/5 Aura + 4/5 Stamina, and that's also obvious.

This is pretty much the long version of what RebeccaBlack meant when he said "Due to how points work".
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-08-01 03:56

Quote from OizenX;923519:
The thing about stamina is that you should either leave it alone, or max it.

The main issue is that if you run by another Dark Knight with the better stam buff, his buff will over write yours. and you'll lose the skill after a few seconds all together.

I'm talking about Revelation: Stamina, not Aura. Aura is the best of the "bad skills" even considering someone else can do it for you. I mean, at the very least it's gonna help with solos even if you always party with the same group and they always keep it up while you're transed.

Oh, and it helps out the party too, which makes games go faster overall, if you care about that.
Oizen wrote on 2012-08-01 20:31

Quote from RebeccaBlack;923577:
I'm talking about Revelation: Stamina, not Aura. Aura is the best of the "bad skills" even considering someone else can do it for you. I mean, at the very least it's gonna help with solos even if you always party with the same group and they always keep it up while you're transed.

Oh, and it helps out the party too, which makes games go faster overall, if you care about that.

Considering how short lived the buff is, I dont consider it much of a use for a party thing.

you really have to be standing right next to the person to use it.
Invertex wrote on 2012-08-01 20:42

Quote from OizenX;924187:
Considering how short lived the buff is, I dont consider it much of a use for a party thing.

you really have to be standing right next to the person to use it.

That's quite common actually. Most early bosses are small enough that you'll be in range of the aura, like Titan/Thor/Glas all look pretty tiny compared to the newer bosses.

Then on the dragons it's common that the entire party will rotate to the blind spots of the dragon to keep doing damage, so you'll be grouped up anyways (this is why Siglint is a pain with stacking circles). The only other type of raid boss is the human sized one, and we all know how small that area is.

So it does help more often than not. Especially since in non trans, you actually gain the 150 Stamina when the aura is applied, then you regain it every time it reapplies. Essentially it gives everyone around you a mini-SH. Having a mini-SH for 2 minutes is actually amazing for damage output, probably more than Steal could ever hope to get.
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-08-02 05:20

It's easily way more than steal. They're not even kind of in the same general range.
Oizen wrote on 2012-08-02 06:23

I'd put one point into steal. While its attack boost per hit is generally useless, the extra damage the orbs do is worth at least 1 point. barely.
and I saw a Kai in DK use Eagle Eye, and it did activate steal, a lot of the orbs came out of the boss too.

I'm not sure how useful the SP boost skill is, at least I find it generally useless as a Sword Lann. I imagine to someone like Kai or evie, with sp skills actually worth using, its another story.