-
Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-29 19:40
Quote from Rime;79135:
And I've explained them twice now ^^;
Maybe my reading comprehension is just lacking. Is that a yes or a no, do bugbears gain distance on ping?
-
Rime wrote on 2010-06-29 19:53
Was that what you're asking for? I thought you two already figured it out. Well, It depends on your weapon speed and connection. I usually fought them with glads and a 20-30 ms connection, and the distance they've gained on me, if any, was negligible and unnoticed. They would either stop and use counter or defense in between pings, or wander around a bit.
-
Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-29 20:58
Quote from Rime;79147:
Was that what you're asking for? I thought you two already figured it out. Well, It depends on your weapon speed and connection. I usually fought them with glads and a 20-30 ms connection, and the distance they've gained on me, if any, was negligible and unnoticed. They would either stop and use counter or defense in between pings, or wander around a bit.
I've had bug bears continuously charge over 4 times. Back when I used glads, the bugbear would gain distance until eventually I was forced to ram. Especially when juggling 4 bugbears at once, knowing if a bugbear will gain any distance at all is critical. Rarely do I get more than an inch of space between all 4 bugbear sprites, and even then, being able to predict how distances will change will give me a measure of the sustainability of my current position.
I don't think bugbear centerplay is really as difficult as you believe it to be. You just need to be able to read ahead and decide where you most need yourself and your pet to be, and knowing in what way and how soon your position will fail is critical.
-
Rime wrote on 2010-06-30 05:27
That's usually not the case for me. But it seems that I have lower latency, so maybe fighting them is a bit different for you.
The main reason I avoid centerplay is that there's usually a risk of two or more bugbears using defense against my windmill. If it occurs I would need to use play dead and wait a few minutes to avoid death since windmilling would most likely result in getting pounded.
Another reason I avoid centerplay is because pet ram isn't always 100% successful on bugbears. Their highly ranked heavy stander means that they can sometimes charge through my stalling tactics.
-
Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-30 06:15
Quote from Rime;79396:
That's usually not the case for me. But it seems that I have lower latency, so maybe fighting them is a bit different for you.
The main reason I avoid centerplay is that there's usually a risk of two or more bugbears using defense against my windmill. If it occurs I would need to use play dead and wait a few minutes to avoid death since windmilling would most likely result in getting pounded.
Another reason I avoid centerplay is because pet ram isn't always 100% successful on bugbears. Their highly ranked heavy stander means that they can sometimes charge through my stalling tactics.
Could be the latency. I'll try to confirm for myself when I go mess around with heavy stander cqc.
Pet rams have very high fail rates against heavy stander (unless you're using mimics that ram on the first attack). You should try single swipes instead. So if 2 bugbears rush you, you'd swipe the closer one, then swipe the farther one if you didn't ping. Either way, with appropriate spacing you'll have your wm.
Defensive rams also remove the target from your wm range and stagger enemy aggro. And your pet will not crit, so their rams tend to elicit immediate enemy melees. Rams can get really messy; pets tend to die or need to be withdrawn prematurely. That combined with the lower dps really limits what you can safely handle.
-
Rime wrote on 2010-06-30 06:18
Swipes aren't 100% successful either. Often times, the monster will not switch its focus to the pet after pinging and continue en route to pummel you.
-
Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-30 06:26
Quote from Rime;79419:
Swipes aren't 100% successful either. Often times, the monster will not switch its focus to the pet after pinging and continue en route to pummel you.
I leave all my pets at 95% wound. All my swipes are successful, whether they ping or not. One touch and my pet goes flying, and the perpetrator gets dumped into post combo recovery.
Saves me time not having to heal them up too. Win/win!
-
Rime wrote on 2010-06-30 06:36
I prefer mine at 100% hp, so they can tank a few hit. Getting splashed isn't much of an issue thanks to bolt counter AI and careful maneuvering.
-
Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-30 07:32
Quote from Rime;79435:
I prefer mine at 100% hp, so they can tank a few hit. Getting splashed isn't much of an issue thanks to bolt counter AI and careful maneuvering.
That's entirely your prerogative of course, but it does slightly gimp your defensive pet play against heavy standers. As you note though, even if the bugbear pings, you still hold distance, so the only real challenge seems to be from defending bugbears.
You can use swipe+mill instead of mill+swipe against defending enemies. In the case of 2 defending enemies, you could swipe one bugbear and wm right next to the other bugbear. This sends the first one flying and the 2nd one will immediately break on your wm, so you could just swipesmash or swipe+mill the 2nd bugbear, playing on wm's ability to confound enemies. Your wm saves your pet and your pet nails your smash/mill. In the case of 3 defending enemies, back up so only 2 are in range.
I frequently go on swipefests, pulling my pet after to freshen my third hand, sometimes summoning a new pet every 3 seconds. If I had fewer pets, I would play a lot more conservatively and put more effort into keeping a single pet alive. With 10 pets hotkeyed though, I don't need my pets to tank. I also enjoy running dungeons and SMs where pets can't tank anyway.
-
Tablo wrote on 2010-08-17 03:52
Hey Cur, just remembered to ask you a question. :)
It seems that you have already explained the notion of "auto-retaliation" of aggro. I have died quite a few times because of this--
example:
sliab cuilin
-player N+wm, grabs an aggro of arat boar
-player summons a pet, loads smash to swipe+smash
-arat boar attacks the pet and charges at the player
for players like me, who gave up defense+prot for damage and runs missions in deadly, it's auto-death. do you know why this happens? it happens quite often in sliab cuilin, especially against arat boars. If it is possible to prevent this from happening (other than avoiding using swipe+smash completely)?
*WOWIFAILEDTOREAD
nvm, lol. so just don't heal my pets?
I also wanted to throw out a challenge/request for you, :D
there is a new tara shadow mission called fomor attack/raid. I have been trying to solo it, was unsuccessful to do so on adv (planning to hunt for fleet alone).
Your ciar advanced guide was extremely helpful, however the case is quite different in this mission.
the biggest difference, in my opinion, is the unfortunate possibility of splash damage and "cerberus."
With the evade skill in place, I was wondering how I could utilize these new opportunities in fomor raid.
If you happen to be successful in soloing this mission, I'd love to get some tips to successfully run it.
(I will keep trying soloing this mission to share). Thanks
*just an update, four shadow wizard spawns-- FH+MS or it seems quite impossible to handle the aggro+continuous lightning bolts...enchant lightning on all equipments? lol
-
Kaeporo wrote on 2010-08-17 11:51
I keep all of my pets in good condition. I can't handle massively multiagro as an archer anyway. Once Crash Shot is released in NA, there won't be any monsters to pet swipe. (CS doesn't draw agro)
-
Neikie wrote on 2010-08-26 19:40
Nice to see you updated the guide even after the G9 update.
Just a bit to add if you wanted to incorporate this into your guide, there are a few techniques you can do to use primary hits such as smash without gaining aggro so long as you follow a pattern of pet attack before and after. I found this very useful for using multiple fireballs on a single target(Such as the Time Trial Golem)
This video explains it fully.
[video=youtube;hBy3qBtIhII]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBy3qBtIhII[/video]
-
Syrphid wrote on 2011-03-16 01:29
Massive clean up.
Quote from Tablo;128293:
Hey Cur, just remembered to ask you a question. :)
It seems that you have already explained the notion of "auto-retaliation" of aggro. I have died quite a few times because of this--
example:
sliab cuilin
-player N+wm, grabs an aggro of arat boar
-player summons a pet, loads smash to swipe+smash
-arat boar attacks the pet and charges at the player
for players like me, who gave up defense+prot for damage and runs missions in deadly, it's auto-death. do you know why this happens? it happens quite often in sliab cuilin, especially against arat boars. If it is possible to prevent this from happening (other than avoiding using swipe+smash completely)?
*WOWIFAILEDTOREAD
nvm, lol. so just don't heal my pets?
I also wanted to throw out a challenge/request for you, :D
there is a new tara shadow mission called fomor attack/raid. I have been trying to solo it, was unsuccessful to do so on adv (planning to hunt for fleet alone).
Your ciar advanced guide was extremely helpful, however the case is quite different in this mission.
the biggest difference, in my opinion, is the unfortunate possibility of splash damage and "cerberus."
With the evade skill in place, I was wondering how I could utilize these new opportunities in fomor raid.
If you happen to be successful in soloing this mission, I'd love to get some tips to successfully run it.
(I will keep trying soloing this mission to share). Thanks
*just an update, four shadow wizard spawns-- FH+MS or it seems quite impossible to handle the aggro+continuous lightning bolts...enchant lightning on all equipments? lol
I had totally intended to spam fomor attack until I could destroy everything, took time off mabi before I got anywhere near that point though, and I guess you've already got your fleet. It's still a great q though. Have you gotten any insight in the 7 months that have passed?
-
Dracius wrote on 2011-03-20 23:41
If only somebody could come up with a version of this for Ranged....
-
Chillax wrote on 2011-03-20 23:44
Quote from Dracius;379408:
If only somebody could come up with a version of this for Ranged....
Or you could just set up some r5+ Barrier Spikes and call it a day.