'Happy slap' pair jailed for 8 years

• Serathx wrote on 2010-07-26 19:40

  Quote from Kazuni;105395:

  "Monster" is a purely insulting word that makes you appear to be closed-minded.
  They're human beings, too, just like you. Something made them that way, whether it be trauma, or just a different view on life. Maybe one that you would consider gruesome, but they're people.
  What if someone kept referring to you as a monster and a sociopath because you did something you considered was right, but everyone else frowned upon it?

  
  
  So it's right to kill people for fun then as long as from your point of view it's all dandy and fine?
  If you ask me trauma isn't an excuse for killing people like that. Neither is a different viewpoint on life.
• User495 wrote on 2010-07-26 19:41
  ._. yeah our justice system is definately screwed up, I say corporal punishment
  
  it bugs me that they went after defenseless elderly people
  and that they did it multiple times o-e
  
  what's the point of not being able to use evidence of another crime they commited? o_O (so that the judge won't have to deal with more stress?)
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-07-26 19:47

  Quote from Serathx;105426:

  So it's right to kill people for fun then as long as from your point of view it's all dandy and fine?
  If you ask me trauma isn't an excuse for killing people like that. Neither is a different viewpoint on life.

  
  
  So it's right to call someone a monster?
• Lan wrote on 2010-07-26 20:18

  Quote from Serathx;105426:

  So it's right to kill people for fun then as long as from your point of view it's all dandy and fine?
  If you ask me trauma isn't an excuse for killing people like that. Neither is a different viewpoint on life.

  
  
  Give a monkey a gun and if it shoots someone.
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-27 03:59

  Quote from Axx;105400:

  Not caring about human life isn't illegal.

  
  
  Not caring about human life mentally is fine, yes, but putting it into action is another story.
  
  

  Quote from Axx;105400:

  Regardless, first degree is specifically pre-meditated with an intent to kill. And not having an intent to not kill isn't the same as having an intent to kill.

  
  
  Yes, that'd be doable if it wasn't a first time thing. These teens' actions aren't their first time, and also not less in severity. An elderly man is stated to have been put off life support a week after the teens struck him. Whether or not a caustic connection can be put there, the teens did not lessen their intent.
  
  As for the intent, maybe I'm being limited in scope of thought here, but, to me, not having an intent to not kill already lends itself to the possibility of having the proposed intent. If I'm not thinking to myself "I shouldn't commit homicide" in a situation like this, while it could mean "I might just eat lunch," it also means I already opened to myself the possibility of doing it, since the idea is not prevented from occurring and shaping the person's behavior.
  
  And I seriously doubt it's "I might eat lunch" when I already committed similar crimes before me in quick succession.
  
  

  Quote from Axx;105400:

  I also doubt that you'd be able to prove premeditation -- it's too easy to just say it was a spur of the moment thing, and there's no voice records for the crimes they were actually charged with, just other ones that apparently went ignored.

  
  
  Again, it's easy to say it's also not a spur of the moment thing, when you consider the teens' past actions. Whether or not the jurisdiction will receive or even use evidence in judgment, that is up to them.
• Axx wrote on 2010-07-27 05:27
  I agree with your entire post. But you'd never be able to convict the teens of 1st degree murder in a US-based court of law. Most countries share the same general legal system, so that probably also applies to whichever court they were actually tried in.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-07-27 06:06

  Quote from Serathx;105426:

  So it's right to kill people for fun then as long as from your point of view it's all dandy and fine?
  If you ask me trauma isn't an excuse for killing people like that. Neither is a different viewpoint on life.

  
  
  It's not an excuse, but it would be better to attempt to understand the mindset of these people when they commit these acts of violence. Simply dismissing them as monsters certainly doesn't help prevention of future cases, and further alienation might make them even worse. That brings us to the purpose of their punishment: will they become better citizens after wasting years of their life in jail, or will they commit the same crimes again, with hatred to spur them on?
• Chockeh wrote on 2010-07-27 20:32
  The granddaughter is just 3 years old... And they enjoyed it too...
  I kinda wished people like this would just die, but like you guys said... Its better to understand their situation or something.
• Serathx wrote on 2010-07-27 20:34

  Quote from Chillax;106265:

  It's not an excuse, but it would be better to attempt to understand the mindset of these people when they commit these acts of violence. Simply dismissing them as monsters certainly doesn't help prevention of future cases, and further alienation might make them even worse. That brings us to the purpose of their punishment: will they become better citizens after wasting years of their life in jail, or will they commit the same crimes again, with hatred to spur them on?

  
  
  In that case then yes, I agree with what you're saying.
  Meh. I suppose I'm just not optimistic enough to consider that this sort of thing will stop.
• Kurezan wrote on 2010-07-28 13:18
  And I question our justice system once more..
• pinkkea wrote on 2010-07-28 17:23
  My god. Somebody comfort the granddaughter 24/7.
• Axx wrote on 2010-07-28 18:13

  Quote from Kurezan;107798:

  And I question our justice system once more..

  
  They're 15 and 14. It's also not in the US, so our justice system doesn't have anything to do with it, but the very fact that the criminals are 15 and 14 years old means the average person will go soft on them. After all, they're just kids, right? Children are pure and innocent creatures meant to be protected. Either that or it's not really their fault. It's society's fault for making them that way. >.>
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-07-28 18:16
  Justice systems around the world are similar though.
  
  It could have happened here
• Kurezan wrote on 2010-07-29 12:06

  Quote from bradstrt;108006:

  Justice systems around the world are similar though.
  
  It could have happened here

  
  
  Yeah exactly.
  
  Also, if someone murdered my father like this, I would kill them, regardless of the costs of doing it.