-
Darkboy132 wrote on 2012-11-12 01:37
So I'm having a lot, and I mean a lot of trouble evading as a Spear Lann. A lot of the raid bosses, the +6 episode ones, somehow catch me in an attack that doesn't seem very avoidable.
Pray tell, how do I evade? And DO NOT say "Switch to Sword Lann".
-
MareneCorp wrote on 2012-11-12 01:42
Which ones are you specifically talking about? The timing for the spear dodge invincibility is like, 0.01 of a second. It's right at the beginning of the dodge. Other than that, you'll need a lot of defense to stack as a spear.
-
Darkboy132 wrote on 2012-11-12 01:52
Quote from MareneCorp;979805:
Which ones are you specifically talking about? The timing for the spear dodge invincibility is like, 0.01 of a second. It's right at the beginning of the dodge. Other than that, you'll need a lot of defense to stack as a spear.
Like Glas, Lion, Keaghan, Dragons.
Glas and Keaghan have combos that are quicker than rolling's recovery, Lion always gets me with his tail, Dragons always gets me with their headbutts and claw swipes and Elchulus with his flying ram attack. I can't say I dodge everything else just fine since I get hit when I try to abuse the roll's invul frame.
-
MareneCorp wrote on 2012-11-12 01:57
Quote from Darkboy132;979810:
Like Glas, Lion, Keaghan, Dragons.
Glas and Keaghan have combos that are quicker than rolling's recovery, Lion always gets me with his tail, Dragons always gets me with their headbutts and claw swipes and Elchulus with his flying ram attack. I can't say I dodge everything else just fine since I get hit when I try to abuse the roll's invul frame.
I'm not a fantastic spear player but Elchulus' flying ram's hitframe is right as his claws touch you, it's some insane timing. The invinciblity is pretty hard to pull off, you have to kind of study frames down to the very millisecond.
-
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-11-12 02:19
Don't spears have .3 sec of invincibility? If so, it's a lot longer than it sounds, even if it's at an inconvenient point in the jump.
The primary way to avoid damage has more to do with positioning than anything. A lot of characters can't avoid things "on command". They have to stay in a certain place when an attack is about to start, such as away and running to the right, for example. It takes some experimentation and most characters won't be able to just jump into attacks with dodges. They'll have to "manually" dodge at least a few hits.
-
Darkboy132 wrote on 2012-11-12 03:03
They do, but the frames don't start instantly like Slip Dash.
-
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-11-12 03:10
It's still viable then, it probably just takes some practice.
-
Darkboy132 wrote on 2012-11-12 08:39
Is there some sort of Spear Lann Dodging Guide somewhere?
-
RealityBreak wrote on 2012-11-12 08:46
Has Spear Lann dodge always had invincibility frames?
-
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-11-12 09:18
Quote from RealityBreak;979931:
Has Spear Lann dodge always had invincibility frames?
No.
Quote from Darkboy132;979930:
Is there some sort of Spear Lann Dodging Guide somewhere?
I dunno, probably. I'd make a Youtube video if I wasn't so lazy. Just be cautious at first and see which way you can run to avoid an attack when you're 5-10 feet away from bosses. It's a little harder to dodge in a party setting sometimes due to how other people can do stupid stuff, but meh.
It's basically a lot of memorization. I mean the people who memorize it tend to be really skilled too and can sometimes escape tough situations, but that's just from experience. Soloing things is basically just about executing what you memorized.
Even with the invincibility, spears are still a hard class to play, especially with lower end gear.
-
Darkboy132 wrote on 2012-11-12 09:29
Quote from RealityBreak;979931:
Has Spear Lann dodge always had invincibility frames?
No, it came from Ignition.
Back then, Spears couldn't dodge for shit because the invinci never existed, the animation was so slow, and it increases Lann's hitbox by a lot.
Quote from RebeccaBlack;979934:
I dunno, probably. I'd make a Youtube video if I wasn't so lazy. Just be cautious at first and see which way you can run to avoid an attack when you're 5-10 feet away from bosses. It's a little harder to dodge in a party setting sometimes due to how other people can do stupid stuff, but meh.
It's basically a lot of memorization. I mean the people who memorize it tend to be really skilled too and can sometimes escape tough situations, but that's just from experience. Soloing things is basically just about executing what you memorized.
Even with the invincibility, spears are still a hard class to play, especially with lower end gear.
Telegraphing is hard, and playing Spears is harder, all from personal experience.
Another question: How the fuck am I supposed to dodge when I'm attacking? I try to sneak in any smash (even Moon Splitter) before trying to jump away and they still hit me.
-
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-11-12 09:47
Well it depends on a lot of things. Experience with the boss in general, framerate, gear, and (to a lesser extent) knowledge of the character. Once you can do it on one character, you can probably do it on almost all of them if you practice several times. Like, after soloing something on my Evie, I found it only took a few days (1-2 attempts a day) to get on a 12K attack/1K defense non-Evie alt to start soloing the things I did on my Evie, but I'd have no chance at the things I didn't due to lack of boss experience.
Don't dodge while attacking... leave time after you attack to position and dodge. If you don't have room to attack, don't attack. Don't be afraid to sit back and play on defense to get a general idea of how things go, especially if it's a solo. The goal is to come up with a way to safely dodge every attack, not to do as much damage as you can while surviving.
I don't have virtually any experience with spears after the .3 sec invincibility as I haven't been playing. If I was, I'd write up a guide. The old way was to "have defense/absurd stats" on some bosses if attempting to solo, as it would be near impossible otherwise. I'm betting Glas, Lionotus, Keaghan and maybe a few dragons would fall into that section. Some bosses, like Thor, wouldn't, though.
-
MareneCorp wrote on 2012-11-14 02:41
Quote from Darkboy132;979936:
Another question: How the fuck am I supposed to dodge when I'm attacking? I try to sneak in any smash (even Moon Splitter) before trying to jump away and they still hit me.
A lot of it is knowing how to use GF/LF effectively, more or less to get in an ideal position to dodge. This would require a very high crit though.
Now for lower-crit spear players, it's knowing when to stop attacking and when exactly to dodge. It's a lot easier to do it in [S]hurricane 3690 whatever it's called[/S] SPIN2WIN mode because you can dodge at pretty much any point in the spin. Moonsplitter, I personally think, should be used when the boss is not about to maul you.
-
RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-11-14 04:56
Relying on GF/LF is pretty unreliable unless you're spinning with high crit. Low crit could lead to a string of bad luck and thus, death. It happens to me, anyway.
Better to be safe unless you already know you can do it and you're trying to do a speedrun.
-
RealityBreak wrote on 2012-11-14 10:36
Quote from RebeccaBlack;980859:
Relying on GF/LF is pretty unreliable unless you're spinning with high crit. Low crit could lead to a string of bad luck and thus, death. It happens to me, anyway.
Better to be safe unless you already know you can do it and you're trying to do a speedrun.
You also need some high att speed cuzz gliding and lightning have a long delay otherwise.