G13's effect on magic damamge.

• December wrote on 2010-08-11 12:01
  Personally, I think this is a good thing, it really rewards dedication, separating people who want to be mages from people who just have a couple mill and spare AP for icespear.
• paladin wrote on 2010-08-11 20:15
  From what i can see
  All you really have to worry about it putting ap and getting a load of int
  So right now the lower int mages get a bit more output
  When g13 rolls around the higher int mages will benefit and the lower int will drop a bit
  And it seems its elemental mastery or bust
• surgura wrote on 2010-08-19 23:23
  I know it's like a week ago someone answered last, but I was wondering if anyone thought about the cast cost reduction? I mean, lightning mastery give a -20% at rank 1. I may be wrong though, maybe it does not apply to advanced magic.
  
  Anyway, it does not boost your damage, but it will make it easier for low level mages to train, which means they get ap faster, which means they get more int, which means... oh well you get it.
  
  --Magic from Morrighan server(EU)
  
  Edit:
  
  The spot where G13 outdamages G9 lies between 460 and 470 int. I calculated this only for thunder since lightning mastery gives the highest bonus(20%).
  
  Equation: (500+2*log(INT)^3)*1.1 = 500*0.8*(1+INT/20)
  
  470 int doesn't sound too bad if you ask me, considering what I already said above.
  
  Because all new skills give extra INT it is possible to reach about 709 base INT. This means your thunder damage(at rank 1 lightning mastery) will be 650, versus the 601 damage before the G13 patch.
  
  As said before, magic will not be nerved, it will just be different. Imho it will be even stronger, it just takes longer.
  
  Sorry for sortof necroing again, I just couldn't resist posting my thoughts.
  
  Info from wiki.mabinogiworld.com
  
  Edit(again):
  Fireball outdamages even earlier: at 420 INT
  
  Looking at IceBlade's calculations i see much of a difference. I don't know what is different, but I believe IceBlade's calculations are right and mine are not. I make alot of mistakes usually.
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-20 08:48
  I did the break even point calculations for the 3 Intermediate level magics. It's basically the point where G9=G13 Damage. After that point adding more Int with cause G9<G13 damage.
  

  [Image: http://iceblade.co.za/old/share/MP/Breakeven.jpg]

  
  
  The reason you have a lower break even point for Fireball is in how you apply the current Int formula. For Intermediate magic it's applied once per charge.
  
  I can better explain why we're saying it's a nerf by using an example. Here's two build, one for G11 and one for G13. There Max Thunder damage difference between the two is only 0.03% (1.1 damage) and if you used the G11 build in G13 then your Thunder damage would do 6.7% less than in G11.
  

  [Image: http://iceblade.co.za/old/share/MP/buildscomparison1.jpg]

  
  
  So it is a nerf since you have to spend allot more AP to make up for the lost damage. Only End game people like Zyrus with over 700 Int will really be seeing an improvement in damage.
  
  On your question about efficiency. Yes the 20% mana consumption reduction will improve your Exp/Mp efficiency, but the damage nerf will negatively effect your Exp/Mp and Exp/time efficiencies. Over all your Exp/Mp efficiency should still improve in most circumstance. But for some players Exp/time is more important that Exp/Mp.
• surgura wrote on 2010-08-20 10:48
  Ah i guess you're right about it being a nerf then. Although I don't like being nerfed, I like the idea of the new formula. It always bothered me that my INT didn't really increase my damage after I hit 250.
  
  Hmm I think it should be G13>G9 after you hit 200 INT. Which means the nerf of intermediate magic should be bigger, but the increase from int should be greater too.
  
  Nevermind my calculations. Too messy. Too many mistakes. I'll leave it for now and let my brain rest.
• Frensus wrote on 2010-08-20 11:35
  Assuming the player in your thunder builds was a mage, wouldn't they get more int from leveling to 50/20?
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-20 12:01

  Quote from surgura;131803:

  Ah i guess you're right about it being a nerf then. Although I don't like being nerfed, I like the idea of the new formula. It always bothered me that my INT didn't really increase my damage after I hit 250.
  
  Hmm I think it should be G13>G9 after you hit 200 INT. Which means the nerf of intermediate magic should be bigger, but the increase from int should be greater too.
  
  Nevermind my calculations. Too messy. Too many mistakes. I'll leave it for now and let my brain rest.

  
  
  lol You edited before I could post my notes on your calculations. But here are they anyway. As you can see the formula you proposed would be a much greater nerf. All they'd have to do is change it to 1% for 15 Int and it'll be allot better. Then the break even is much lower, but someone with 1k Int would get a 23.8% damage boost.
  

  [Image: http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7595/breakevensen.jpg]

  
  
  

  Quote from Frensus;131809:

  Assuming the player in your thunder builds was a mage, wouldn't they get more int from leveling to 50/20?

  
  
  Mage is just one of 5 Classes, so it wouldn't have been representative of all the magic using community /pretendingTOhaveKNOWNallALONG
  
  Sorry I did forget about that. I've lost my link to the info, so I'm not sure how to change it. I remember that it was +0.5 Int per level up, but I can't remember what the bonus Base Int and Aging Int was. If you could provide that info, then I'll gladly change the calculations. (Just add info for a mage)
  
  Edit: nvm I found it lol Here's the revised one
  

  [Image: http://iceblade.co.za/old/share/MP/buildscomparison1.jpg]
• surgura wrote on 2010-08-20 13:42
  I've tried some formulas where the int/20 stays the same, but the base damages of the spells are higher. I think there is at least one thing nexon will do right. If they don't nerf the base damage magic will me OP. Just watch:
  
  hmm image not working. just the link then http://yfrog.com/0pasdasasdadsp
  
  I hope I did the calculations right this time. Please say if I did it wrong again. Although I don't know what i would've done wrong. lol.
  
  Anyway I agree with you're statement of int just being more effective. But I'm not sure if that solves the problem of magic being only good with extremely high int.
  
  I checked it. With your formula you still require 400+ int to hit G9 damage =/ It is better though, since high int helps more.
  
  I'd say a combination of less base damage nerf and int/[less then 20]. I know i said something like that before.
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-20 13:57
  You made an error with Thunder and Ice spear. You didn't take in to account their damage multipliers. 5 Charges of thunder does 6 times the base damage and 5 charges of Ice spear does 6.5 times the base damage.
  
  Example:
  Thunder damage = (Base damage)*(Damage nerf)*(Charge multiplier)*(1+(INt/2000)*(Mastery)
  Thunder damage with 500 Int and r1 Lightning mastery = 500*0.8*6*[1+(500/2000)]*1.2 =3600
• surgura wrote on 2010-08-20 14:00
  Oh ofcourse >_<
  let me edit.
  
  Done.
• Vanof wrote on 2010-08-21 21:18
  One extra thunder or ice spear isn't a huge issue for most mages, as for Fireball I don't think it'll make too big of a difference. I don't see fireball being seriously used by lower end mages quite as much.
  
  I do dislike how lightning magic has such advantages, but at least it remains it's easier to do higher damage with fireball than thunder.(due to 0.24% to get 5 thunder crits and 30% with fireball)
  
  imo, ego wands still need to make more of an impact on int magics. I was hoping DevCat would do something like that for G13, but that remains to be seen. Actually, I wish ego wands were more useful in general for how expensive they are to raise and maintain.(no matter which way you decide to repair it)
• surgura wrote on 2010-08-22 21:53
  Yes I agree with the spirit wand part. I think they should boost the extra damage from normal wands too, talking about bolt magic.
  
  On average 1.5 charges of thunder crit. There is no difference with fireball in the therm of critical damage. They both get the same damage boost on average, thunder is just more stable and fireball has a higher max damage. I don't know if fireball is still stronger, maybe I'll calculate it sometime.
• IceBlade wrote on 2010-08-23 12:04
  There isn't really any use in comparing Fireball and Thunder. They're completely different spells with different uses. Fireball really shines in orb rooms and Boss rooms, but it's charge time and needing 5 charges makes it less effective as a every day use spell. Thunder and Ice spear on the other had are much better suited for every day use. Being able to fire them at any number of charges and keeping targets in stunlock/frozen makes them great for normal use.
  
  Which is better between Ice Spear and Thunder has been the topic of countless of debates, so I don't want to go into that.