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Hanna wrote on 2013-05-21 02:47
my sister's doing a survey and wants to know what you think is worse
53,800 people die every year worldwide from second hand smoke
vs
5 million deaths per year from smokers
in my opinion it's the 53k
smokers make their own choice, they know what they're getting into, they dug their own grave, sunk their own ship.
meanwhile 53 thousand innocent people die from the negligence of others and their habits
that's just not fair
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Milk wrote on 2013-05-21 02:50
I say the 5 million that died from smoking, I mean yeah they did make the choice to smoke. But the numbers look way worse to me.
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Cynic wrote on 2013-05-21 03:36
The former. Although I do feel bad for the smokers who genuinely work on quitting but have a hard time staying quit due to having constant stressors in their lives.
All the others brought it on themselves, though.
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Murasaki wrote on 2013-05-21 03:38
That's almost more like 54K. 54K people dying because of a choice they themselves didn't make.
I hate to place one over the other but people make their own choices and when it affects other people that just feels worse somehow.
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Episkey wrote on 2013-05-21 05:18
5 million people.
I mean, who am I to judge which is worse ... but as for initial reaction? Wow. Just 5 million people.
And to top it off, it's mostly due to how addicting cigarettes can be.
I really have a new respect for people that want to quit, please don't give up! D:
Besides, people die all the time due to the actions of others. Not trying to down-play their deaths, it is quite sad but ... I still stand by my reflections.
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Osayidan wrote on 2013-05-21 11:54
I find the 53k "worse" for that reason. I knew second hand was bad but didn't know it was that bad.
As for 5 million for normal smoking it was no shock to me, I knew that number was ridiculous already.
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Lewd wrote on 2013-05-21 12:19
But can you really pin it on second hand smoke?
Cars emit much more pollution than cigs do and everybody drives those.
I read somewhere that the capital of Mexico's pollution is so bad, living there is the equivalent to a pack of smokes a day.
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Ashikoki wrote on 2013-05-21 12:50
Quote from Lewd;1092845:
But can you really pin it on second hand smoke?
Cars emit much more pollution than cigs do and everybody drives those.
I read somewhere that the capital of Mexico's pollution is so bad, living there is the equivalent to a pack of smokes a day.
Mexico isn't nearly as bad as the
toxic smog in China right now.
The air actually is beyond safe living conditions. It is quite literally deadly. These people are killing themselves just by being there.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2013-05-21 15:30
The 5 mil cause more collateral damage with grieving people and the good old damage to the economy (
lack of workers AND welfare stress!), so it's
obviously worse. It's also the cause of the second figure to begin with, so yeah.
Also there's this whole thing where I value everyone's life even if they make stupid decisions.
Quote from Lewd;1092845:
But can you really pin it on second hand smoke? Cars emit much more pollution than cigs do and everybody drives those.
Most certainly not. It's also probably a bloated up estimation of a dark figure anyway. Wouldn't be the first time.
Same goes for smoking btw. You can tick which carcinogenic activities you succumbed to and then they make an educated guess at what is most likely the cause. A good portion of those could just as well have had bad luck with cars in their vicinity or something. Don't take clinical data too much at face value.
Are you sure? Got any numbers for the average pollution by cars?
Also, what matters isn't total pollution, it's local pollution. If cars emit all in all 100 times as much carcinogenics but it gets distributed very widely before it hits you, almost nullifying the effect, it's much more harmless than cigar smoke from the guy next to you that is directly inhaled with almost no dispersion, causing much more severe inhalation of carcinogens.
Other risk factors
Some other things increase lung cancer risk, but they increase the risk far less than smoking. They are
Exposure to radon gas
Exposure to certain chemicals
Air pollution
Previous lung disease
A family history of lung cancer
Past cancer treatment
Previous smoking related cancers
Lowered immunity
Source
It is not logically possible to deduce with good certainty in all affected individual cases that smoking must be the direct cause. That is outside of what statistics or anything else can do. Whoever tells you otherwise is a crook or ignoramus.
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Osayidan wrote on 2013-05-21 15:30
Quote from Lewd;1092845:
But can you really pin it on second hand smoke?
Cars emit much more pollution than cigs do and everybody drives those.
I read somewhere that the capital of Mexico's pollution is so bad, living there is the equivalent to a pack of smokes a day.
Cars are certainly not helping, but second hand smoke to me may as well be locking yourself up in a room a car next to you. In areas of the world where air pollution isn't at retarded levels being outside with a smoker is not too bad, go into a house and I want to punch them in the face.
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Hanna wrote on 2013-05-21 16:57
Quote from Lewd;1092845:
But can you really pin it on second hand smoke?
Cars emit much more pollution than cigs do and everybody drives those.
I read somewhere that the capital of Mexico's pollution is so bad, living there is the equivalent to a pack of smokes a day.
Well, when they look at their lungs and find tar and all kinds of crap, yeah, they can
i have asthma from my parents bad habits, my lungs look awful but i've never smoked a cigarette in my life
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Kenny? wrote on 2013-05-21 19:26
53k. I have no choice but to walk through the 'smoker's gate' where all the smokers do their business before school. I have probably inhaled more smoke the past two years than I would have my entire life, and it's honestly disgusting. I can actually tell it's affecting my body.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2013-05-22 21:48
Quote from Hanna;1092926:
Well, when they look at their lungs and find tar and all kinds of crap, yeah, they can
Oh right, I forgot about that.
Fuck your parents, honestly.
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Drizzit wrote on 2013-05-23 02:05
Source?
I saw an add on TV that was something like this too, but I'd like to know how such a thing is verified.
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Hanna wrote on 2013-05-24 14:06