Pope Says He Can't Judge Gays

• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2013-07-29 20:45
  While still reaffirming the Catholic beliefs that being gay is a sin, the pope has stated that he has no right to judge them, and I think that's a step in the right direction.
  
  

  "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?
  
  "The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worst problem," he said.
  
  "You see a lot written about the gay lobby. I still have not seen anyone in the Vatican with an identity card saying they are gay," he joked.

  
  
  Unfortunately I can see a lot of religious/homophobic people probably saying something along the lines of "The gays got to the pope, get rid of him!"
  
  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-pope-gays-20130729,0,3160549.story
• Friggerton wrote on 2013-07-29 22:25
  This is similar to the stance I've taken on the conversation as a Protestant Christian. I also like the much humbler and serving image he's projected in contrast to previous leaders.
• Nagizuki wrote on 2013-08-01 17:48
  I'd have to agree it's a step in the right direction, though I can't help but wish it had been more. Although we all know that's not really a realistic wish, coming from the pope.
• Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2013-08-01 18:01
  I like this man. He seems to be worth his salt.
• Chockeh wrote on 2013-08-01 21:49
  I did not think I'd see a Pope say something like this in the 21st century
• Compass wrote on 2013-08-01 21:54
  He ain't no pope of mine then.
• Mentosftw wrote on 2013-08-01 23:55
  When you're a political figure, you can't say conservative and controversial statements that make you seem anti gay. And considering that hundreds of thousands of people look up to the pope as the closest thing to god's PR or whatever, he's gotta be careful with what kind of stance he takes.
  
  Edit: And then the next page in that article is like "Derp no equality for women as usual."
• Valkyrio wrote on 2013-08-02 00:06

  Quote from Mentosftw;1130492:

  When you're a political figure, you can't say conservative and controversial statements that make you seem anti gay. And considering that hundreds of thousands of people look up to the pope as the closest thing to god's PR or whatever, he's gotta be careful with what kind of stance he takes.
  
  Edit: And then the next page in that article is like "Derp no equality for women as usual."

  
  
  Uh...what?
  
  He's the pope. The last pope made it a point to say that gay people shouldn't become priests (Despite the fact that they're celibate, so it doesn't matter anyways) and also decide he wanted to lie and say that condoms increase your likelihood of catching AIDS.
  
  In addition, tons of politicians in the U.S. are openly anti-gay.
  
  
  
  Anyways the one change I'd love to see is the addition of female clergy. I would be impressed by that rather than any more dumb platitudes.
• ikamiru wrote on 2013-08-09 13:34
  I think he is right saying who am I to judge.
  
  But officially it is written in the bible/koran/torah that homosexual relationships are not allowed.
  This is probally because we are made to reproduce and we have to carry the religion onto our children.
  This is not entirely impossible but a homosexual relationship wont/can't cause new offspring thus no new followers.
  
  And if a priest knows the bible he will know he can't become a priest if he is homosexual.
  Thus it would be impossible for an homosexual to become a good priest.
  
  Also God's words are the divine judgement he will judge wherether you were living wrong or right.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2013-08-09 14:55

  Quote from ikamiru;1133854:

  I think he is right saying who am I to judge.
  
  But officially it is written in the bible/koran/torah that homosexual relationships are not allowed.
  This is probally because we are made to reproduce and we have to carry the religion onto our children.
  This is not entirely impossible but a homosexual relationship wont/can't cause new offspring thus no new followers.
  
  And if a priest knows the bible he will know he can't become a priest if he is homosexual.
  Thus it would be impossible for an homosexual to become a good priest.
  
  Also God's words are the divine judgement he will judge wherether you were living wrong or right.

  
  
  You're forgetting one key thing that religious people normally do forget when discussing the bible and other "holy books": They were written by man, not God. And how do we know that man wasn't an asshole?
  
  If I was religious I would imagine the conversation went like this:
  
  Jesus: "Now, about the gays.. I like them, they're pretty cool. Write that they should be treated as equals."
  
  Bible Writer: "Alright, treated as equals." *Hates gays and actually writes that they suck and God hates them*
  
  Jesus: "Did you get all that?"
  
  Bible Writer: "Yep, word for word!" *Evil laughter*
  
  So even though something is written in the bible, for all we know it could be the total opposite of what God/Jesus/Allah/Yahweh/Etc. wanted.
  
  Really though, there's no way to prove it for or against as we do not have the ability to go back in time and ask.
• Elleanior wrote on 2013-08-10 05:48

  Quote from Friggerton;1129314:

  This is similar to the stance I've taken on the conversation as a Protestant Christian. I also like the much humbler and serving image he's projected in contrast to previous leaders.

  
  He refused the shroud the moment that it was given to him. Props for that alone.
• Valkyrio wrote on 2013-08-10 08:41

  Quote from ikamiru;1133854:

  I think he is right saying who am I to judge.
  
  But officially it is written in the bible/koran/torah that homosexual relationships are not allowed.
  This is probally because we are made to reproduce and we have to carry the religion onto our children.
  This is not entirely impossible but a homosexual relationship wont/can't cause new offspring thus no new followers.
  
  And if a priest knows the bible he will know he can't become a priest if he is homosexual.
  Thus it would be impossible for an homosexual to become a good priest.
  
  Also God's words are the divine judgement he will judge wherether you were living wrong or right.

  
  
  I'm sorry, but you strike me as someone who hasn't ever read the bible, let alone the koran or the torah.
• Osayidan wrote on 2013-08-12 15:35

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1133860:

  You're forgetting one key thing that religious people normally do forget when discussing the bible and other "holy books": They were written by man, not God. And how do we know that man wasn't an asshole?
  
  If I was religious I would imagine the conversation went like this:
  
  Jesus: "Now, about the gays.. I like them, they're pretty cool. Write that they should be treated as equals."
  
  Bible Writer: "Alright, treated as equals." *Hates gays and actually writes that they suck and God hates them*
  
  Jesus: "Did you get all that?"
  
  Bible Writer: "Yep, word for word!" *Evil laughter*
  
  So even though something is written in the bible, for all we know it could be the total opposite of what God/Jesus/Allah/Yahweh/Etc. wanted.
  
  Really though, there's no way to prove it for or against as we do not have the ability to go back in time and ask.

  
  
  Not to mention that the bible and other holy texts keep getting transcribed and translated. Just the bible for example is a collection of writings from a bunch of different dudes, many of which weren't even around during jesus's time. Then those writings were at some point bunched together into a big book. To make copies of that big book people had to copy it by hand. Words get changed, whole sentences or pages can even be lost. To top it all off it got translated a bunch of times. It's like playing "chinese whispers" while translating at the same time.
  
  Then people base their entire belief systems on these texts.
• Elleanior wrote on 2013-08-15 08:29

  Quote from Osayidan;1134919:

  Not to mention that the bible and other holy texts keep getting transcribed and translated. Just the bible for example is a collection of writings from a bunch of different dudes, many of which weren't even around during jesus's time. Then those writings were at some point bunched together into a big book. To make copies of that big book people had to copy it by hand. Words get changed, whole sentences or pages can even be lost. To top it all off it got translated a bunch of times. It's like playing "chinese whispers" while translating at the same time.
  
  Then people base their entire belief systems on these texts.

  
  
  This. Even if you get a copy of the Bible that was "translated directly from the original script", chances are that it's still been mistranslated multiple times, but there's no way to be certain. There's also many situations in the Bible where God stated that he wanted certain people punished for certain things at certain times, but people've mistranslated that to occur at all times, rather than just a single scenario. Context is a hugely important part of Bible/ Torah/ Koran interpretation, and often when people quote one of them in their arguments, they neglect the context, whether intentionally or not for the sake of their debate, and will push that tiny little part on others as if it's the whole truth, when they've missed the bread of the sandwich, and just given the fillings, or vice versa.
  
  Having grown up around Christians, zealous and no, and being Christian myself, I've seen this a lot, and it pisses me right the hell off.
• ikamiru wrote on 2013-08-15 08:40

  Quote from Valkyrio;1134163:

  I'm sorry, but you strike me as someone who hasn't ever read the bible, let alone the koran or the torah.

  
  I have never read the Koran I did read the Bible and Torah.
  And I do look up the references.
  I myself have no problem with homosexuals.