1 Deadbeat Argument Why Studying Should be Free

• Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2013-08-08 14:46

  Quote from boonhobo;1133459:

  If it's free, anyone can just grab the degree

  
  wat
  
  There are things like NC and maximum number of positions. You'll still compete, and you'll still have to work for your degree.
  
  I mean seriously, wat.
• Nagizuki wrote on 2013-08-08 17:24

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;1133405:

  It's really not. Women of the same age are generally as capable as men (except maybe in some unusual intense physical labor situations) but older people tend to bring much different experiences to the table. How can you just assume that because they're older, they're "grumpy and bitter" and don't want that job? I could turn that around to say perhaps they know the value of any job and value it more than someone would at 20. But now, just like you, I'm making blind assumptions about what they probably feel. While physical changes to the body and mind are measurable, this sort of guessing really isn't.

  
  
  Physical changes to the body are measurable, but mental changes are not even close to measurable. I've seen people my age far and away more responsible and suited for jobs than any 40 year old, regardless of "life experience". To say that a young person is incapable or undeserving of a job because "you're young your brain hasn't fully developed" is both ignorant and insulting.
  
  Well since you were making blind assumptions I decided to make a few of my own. At least you realized the folly of that.
  
  Someone can do the job at 40 but that doesn't mean they'll do it as well as if they were 20.
• Yoorah wrote on 2013-08-09 04:14
  Holy shit, this thread is filled with stupidity from all sides. Seriously, wtf? :|
  
  And there's no such thing as "free" education. If you're not going to be paying for your own education, then someone else has to. As long as education is reasonably affordable like it is in Canada and even in the US for the most part, I think it's fair to let people be responsible for their own investments in themselves.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-08-09 07:21

  Quote from Nagizuki;1133509:

  To say that a young person is incapable or undeserving of a job because "you're young your brain hasn't fully developed" is both ignorant and insulting.

  
  You're the one that's saying that. All I ever said is that people would make better candidates at 40 than they would at 20. I always thought that these sorts of "all people are different" arguments were implied, but in case they aren't, we're talking about the average individual with all else equal for that age group.
  

  Quote from Yoorah;1133703:

  And there's no such thing as "free" education.

  
  Do we really need to go through technicalities like this? People are obviously going to pay for it in taxes but they're more fit to do so at some parts of life than others. "Free" is just terminology and you know it. It's not as if it's been sneaking up on you when you have "free" healthcare. But if we're really going to get into it, "free" in these situations always means "free at the point of use" and was never meant to imply anything more.
  
  Blah, I need to stop assuming so many things before getting into these conversations. Sorry for being a bit of a dick, I'll try to clarify everything I say from now on to make sure nothing is lost.
  
  And if you want my honest opinion, do I think it's "fair" for people to fuck themselves over with student loans they can't pay for, vehicles and houses they can't afford and general borrowing they can never recover from? Yeah, of course I do. Because that's what freedom really means, the freedom to do things that could be destructive to yourself. No one ever needs permission to do what's good for them. But if I talked about what I thought was "fair", there wouldn't be many taxes and the world would be fucked because no one would be able to take money from each other to fund things by threat of violence as they do now. Just because things are fair doesn't mean they're the best for the world. And if we want the best world possible, we have to be completely honest and say people are collectively horrible with money and can't for the life of them make good long term decisions. It's on such a grand scale that, if left unregulated, it will wreck economies.
• Yoorah wrote on 2013-08-09 14:56
  Yes, we do--because there are many people who believe in that fallacy, and I think it's ridiculously stupid.
  
  And the post you've quoted clearly states that I support the status quo (read: subsidized College and University tuition, with generous additional financial assistance options available to those who need it, and merit-based scholarships which can in some cases make education free for those who really deserve it). I do not support taking personal responsibility out of the equation, that's all. Pay attention, man. xd
• boonhobo wrote on 2013-08-09 15:13

  Quote from Campylobacter jejuni;1133462:

  wat
  
  There are things like NC and maximum number of positions. You'll still compete, and you'll still have to work for your degree.
  
  I mean seriously, wat.

  
  
  Yeah I completely agree, some sort of barrier has to be put up to make it more difficult to get accepted into the program so you don't get questionable people in the program. But what are you going to pay the person who has to review all those applications? Yeah there's the application fee but...
  
  There's a lot of overhead costs involved at post-secondary institutions staff, facility, security, utilities, landscaping, research, advertising, professional organization fees, training, programs to connect you to careers after graduation, etc?
  
  Further education is an investment. People don't blindly buy houses, cars or suddenly open businesses (if they do they have the money to piss away), do some planning, even take a year or 2 to fund your education or even part time studies. Working at McDonalds builds character, if you can find something better, good for you! (personally I worked at Dominos Pizza in high school and learned that people get pissed over the weirdest things...)
  
  Education isn't for everyone; unfortunately my peers (myself included) were all brain washed to think, "arg manual labour, no good, I wanna sit in a cubical all day or work in a lab doing science things as soon as possible because sitting around in nice clothes or doing science = good life".
  
  FYI I took an engineering degree at UofT and did actually graduate :S... I've just seen a lot of people wreak themselves in a course they weren't suited for or put themselves in horrible debt unable to pay for it because they took a program they weren't exactly sure they wanted to take. I am debt free but I am having second thoughts with my degree. I love manual labour and program scripting, but people look down on you or joke about out sourcing your work to India which I hate.
  
  Those guys I studied with that did poorly, some developed full blown depression and I started to develop depression as well in my 3rd/4th year (it's getting worse). Fortunately for me I didn't fail but it's still a pretty embarrassing to look at my marks (I know what I know but I can't exactly back that up on paper which is the first thing people see).
  
  Oh I work now. Better than the do nothing option. I have no idea why my depression is getting worse. Seeing doctors just made me feel worse.
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2013-08-09 16:13
  ^ That's because engineering is fit for people who don't have souls.
  
  [video=youtube;qOtoujYOWw0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOtoujYOWw0[/video]
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-08-10 15:00

  Quote from Yoorah;1133862:

  I do not support taking personal responsibility out of the equation, that's all.

  
  But that's the point. Perhaps taking personal responsibility out of the equation, as you put it, is what's actually for the best. We'll end up with more people doing more skillful work than before which could advance things along nicely. We already have that system you're speaking of and it's not working out as well as we'd hope.
  
  Besides, are people really fit to be dealing with tens of thousands of dollars in a single decision as a teenager?
  
  It's nice that some people get funding when they need it and others are intelligent enough to go for free just on sheer knowledge and ability alone, but there are a ton of people who will not fall into this category. Why are they undeserving of a chance?
• Yoorah wrote on 2013-08-10 17:36
  Because taking personal responsibility out of anything is never a good thing. Think about this for a bit and the questions you brought up will answer themselves.
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2013-08-10 17:59

  Quote from Yoorah;1134263:

  Because taking personal responsibility out of anything is never a good thing. Think about this for a bit and the questions you brought up will answer themselves.

  
  
  The cat always emphasize higher education in modern countries.
  However, university students have costs and are detrimental to society until they produce money or at least pay back the costs.
  Not every graduate will obtain a career in their studied field which is fine as long it's like 15% of them.
• Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2013-08-10 18:59

  Quote from Yoorah;1133703:

  Holy shit, this thread is filled with stupidity from all sides. Seriously, wtf? :|
  
  And there's no such thing as "free" education. If you're not going to be paying for your own education, then someone else has to. As long as education is reasonably affordable like it is in Canada and even in the US for the most part, I think it's fair to let people be responsible for their own investments in themselves.

  
  There are no completely 100% accurately with a margin of error of 0,0001% strictly free things, yes. Pointless semantic argument.
  
  That's why I called "the rest a zero sum game".
  

  Quote from Yoorah;1134263:

  Because taking personal responsibility out of anything is never a good thing. Think about this for a bit and the questions you brought up will answer themselves.

  
  Yeah but that's not what is done. There are still criteria you have to fulfill and work you have to diligently do anyway, and you will still have to budget your income. This isn't about free education à la "no one left behind".
  
  The world doesn't always deal in absolutes, unless you're a Sith I suppose. Actually that would explain a lot about some people.