[News] Teen Hangs Himself

• Compass wrote on 2013-10-14 17:40

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;1159223:

  Why even bother punishing them then if it's not going to change anything and they might as well just be looked at as threats all of the time?
  

  
  Because they it's better than doing nothing. I can't believe you want criminals to go unpunished.
  

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;1159223:

  I thought the point of punishment was to prevent this from happening again.

  
  It doesn't work all the time.
  Look at repeat offenders.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-10-14 18:00
  Of course it is, but I want to know the justification from people who support these things.
• Natural Harmonia Gropius wrote on 2013-10-14 18:10

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;1159236:

  Of course it is, but I want to know the justification from people who support these things.

  
  
  

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1159201:

  It's there so you don't let nice old Mr. Johnson babysit your 5 year old then come home to her having been violated and find out he's already done it 5-6 times before.

  
  
  Pretty much that.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-10-14 18:59
  But that brings it back to my question in response to that: Why even bother punishing them like this if we're just going to see them as just as much of a threat anyway? If there is no reason, then perhaps we should either open our minds and realize the crime is over or change rehabilitation to actually make it rehabilitation... something intended to be helpful rather than harmful out of revenge.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-10-14 19:14
  The main issue is that usually prison doesn't cure the people from pedophilia. There's a lot of cases of repeat offenses. Repeat offenses of child molestation are so bloody common as is, even with the registry.
  
  I wouldn't be surprised if my biological mother was repeat offender after she did that with us and her boyfriend.
  
  Yes, I'm actually going to bring personal experiences into this as it's the best teacher imo. I fully support the sex offender registry if it helps reduce the amount of repeat offenses even if it's by 1%.
  
  As for this unfortunate teen, I think what they were doing was a bit too extreme and I also think the teen was overreacting which isn't as big of a surprise as teens are incredibly fickle at that age due to hormones and go from one extreme end of the spectrum to the other.
• TLCBonaparte wrote on 2013-10-15 14:29
  Actually from what I read, sexual assault victims mostly don't repeat offense. Those who do are often mentally ill. Just saying, repeat sex offenders are actually kind of rare.
• Natural Harmonia Gropius wrote on 2013-10-16 02:06

  Quote from TLCBonaparte;1159438:

  Actually from what I read, sexual assault victims mostly don't repeat offense. Those who do are often mentally ill. Just saying, repeat sex offenders are actually kind of rare.

  
  
  Of course victims don't. They want nothing like that to happen to them again. Criminals guilty of it on the other hand...
• TLCBonaparte wrote on 2013-10-16 02:57

  Quote from Natural Harmonia Gropius;1159621:

  Of course victims don't. They want nothing like that to happen to them again. Criminals guilty of it on the other hand...

  
  
  lol sry, criminals is what I meant.Most sex criminals aren't repeat offenders.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2013-10-16 04:54

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1159259:

  The main issue is that usually prison doesn't cure the people from pedophilia. There's a lot of cases of repeat offenses. Repeat offenses of child molestation are so bloody common as is, even with the registry.
  
  I wouldn't be surprised if my biological mother was repeat offender after she did that with us and her boyfriend.
  
  Yes, I'm actually going to bring personal experiences into this as it's the best teacher imo. I fully support the sex offender registry if it helps reduce the amount of repeat offenses even if it's by 1%.
  
  As for this unfortunate teen, I think what they were doing was a bit too extreme and I also think the teen was overreacting which isn't as big of a surprise as teens are incredibly fickle at that age due to hormones and go from one extreme end of the spectrum to the other.

  
  
  The system is prone to abuse, if you want to go personal wise, especially if you have vindictive parental figures trying to get their children back so they accuse someone of being a predator, which if you can convince the child to keep their story straight, it usually sticks.
  
  I have seen cases of that, a child who hated their father so much for no good reason, brought up false accusations and the father was permanently labeled as a villain for life.
  
  These cases are rare though, but not a reason why they should be removed though.
  
  More a problem with the justice system.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-10-16 11:45

  Quote from Aubog007;1159690:

  The system is prone to abuse, if you want to go personal wise, especially if you have vindictive parental figures trying to get their children back so they accuse someone of being a predator, which if you can convince the child to keep their story straight, it usually sticks.
  
  I have seen cases of that, a child who hated their father so much for no good reason, brought up false accusations and the father was permanently labeled as a villain for life.
  
  These cases are rare though, but not a reason why they should be removed though.
  
  More a problem with the justice system.

  
  
  Once again I'm going to bring up a personal story as my rotten younger brother who sexually abused his little brother tried to get my father in trouble by claiming that he physically abused him when he did no such thing. My father refuses to lift a hand to him cause of that kind of shit.
  
  Some people are just plain evil, and manipulative like that.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-10-18 18:07

  Quote from TLCBonaparte;1159438:

  Actually from what I read, sexual assault victims mostly don't repeat offense. Those who do are often mentally ill. Just saying, repeat sex offenders are actually kind of rare.

  
  The recidivism rate is huge with sexual crimes because sexuality isn't just something you can take from someone with punishment. If someone gets off on something they can't legally do, punishing them might make them try to suppress sexuality as a whole but just as you can't "beat the gay out of someone" or use therapy to "treat, resolve" (whatever word) the "problem", it's going to hold up just as well for someone born in the rather unfortunate position of being sexually attracted to something that either society hates and/or involves harming others. I'm not saying sexuality can't change. Of course it does. There are people who consider themselves gay at one point in life and then go straight at another point and vice versa. But I don't honestly believe we can punish or in any way "teach" people not to be attracted to what they are and I don't even believe it's very much impacted by nurture either.
  
  @Kingofrunes, my problem with that is some people will say what you're saying, things like "if it helps even 1%...", yet at the same time be against things like the NSA tracking all of us and recording all our calls, internet logs and so on. Those programs are put in place for the same sorts of reasons and, unlike a sex offender registry, don't involve public shaming. If we just throw out the obvious rights and privacy violations and use any means necessary to cut down one thing, we're going to end up in a miserable situation. We might as well just have police escort us to our vehicles to make sure we don't rape anyone along the way. I bet that'd stop some sexual crimes here and there too.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-10-18 18:29
  Then what do you propose we do about people who keep committing these kinds of offenses? Just let them do w/e?
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-10-18 18:46
  Err, no. Just because we don't publicly shame (or even punish) them doesn't mean we "let them do w/e".
  
  We should instead focus on trying to put them into positions where they don't harm others, but still get to live generally free lives. There's going to need to be a compromise. One that involves people not getting hurt, but also allows them to release/suppress/whatever their urges in a way that's actually realistic and humane.
  
  Rape, for example, goes down with porn available. I'm not saying the best solution is to throw everyone their favorite weird ass porn and tell them to watch it, but in refusing to compromise at all and saying "all of this is bad all of the time therefore you can't think about it ever", all we're going to end up with is sexually frustrated people who just spent 30 years in a cage (contemplating god knows what for when they get out) being told they should feel bad for who they are. That could be true, but it isn't going to reduce the chance of them raping someone again (or being an exhibitionist, or doing whatever they do). At all. All it's going to do is try to make them afraid of a cage, and studies have shown people don't tend to think ahead very well about the long term consequences of their actions.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-10-18 18:50

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;1160598:

  All it's going to do is try to make them afraid of a cage, and studies have shown people don't tend to think ahead very well about the long term consequences of their actions.

  
  
  Watching people on to catch a predator shows me that as a lot of them know the consequences of what they are going to do but they do it anyways, most likely because they can't help themselves especially with how that show practically baits them into it.
  
  Getting America to think otherwise though is going to be practically impossible. There is a crap ton of overly protective parents and people who don't want to subject children to that. Then again it's a problem in a lot of other western countries too that they are trying to curb.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2013-10-18 19:02

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1160600:

  Watching people on to catch a predator shows me that as a lot of them know the consequences of what they are going to do but they do it anyways, most likely because they can't help themselves especially with how that show practically baits them into it.

  
  Obviously not. If they knew the consequences of showing up in the way they say they do after they get caught, they probably wouldn't have shown up in the first place! Unless it was worth all that time in prison, which judging from how most of them cry about it, it isn't. That's what I mean by not really understanding the consequences. If anything, that show proves they have no idea what they're doing because they go into such a shock when they find out it's actually a thing that is happening.
  

  Getting America to think otherwise though is going to be practically impossible. There is a crap ton of overly protective parents and people who don't want to subject children to that. Then again it's a problem in a lot of other western countries too that they are trying to curb.

  
  It doesn't really matter what people think at all. I mean it does in the real world because that's how laws get changed, but it shouldn't and in many cases it just doesn't. If people had their way, we'd still be hanging people openly in the street if they did something bad enough. It'd be a public service. We'd be sitting in gladiator arenas and it'd be broadcast nationally for free, funded by tax money. But thankfully, we've decided to compromise in many ways and look how much our world has improved because of it. We need to keep doing that.
  
  But keep in mind, I'm not saying that we should just let people do whatever even if it harms someone because they feel like it and their body tells them to. We shouldn't have to "sacrifice" people to make this work, so long as we hold the realistic expectation that crime will never be completely eradicated, only reduced. What I'm basically saying is people shouldn't have to subject their children, or rape victims, or anyone, to anything.