State of Human Archery? (& Laintine Asks)

• Laintine wrote on 2013-11-03 20:56
  I'm just coming back after a few years and wanted to see what was up since I'm considering taking my character in that direction.
  
  I see a new skill's been added (Crash Shot) but overall it looks like it's sort of lagging behind other talents in terms of updates? Has it been completely eclipsed by elf archery at this point?
• SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-11-03 21:53
  Range is still OP xD
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-11-03 22:16
  Elf archery is defintely better (always was, and is, and always will be).
  It doesn't mean it's completely eclipsed. Human range is still strong.
• cheese758 wrote on 2013-11-03 22:34
  Range is lagging behind melee if you don't have a reforged glove for magnum or crash shot. You'll get much more dmg in hard missions with a lance since they pierce. Only difference between human range and elf range is the magnum cool down which is very important. On that other hand, humans have AR which has an aim boost at r1 so you almost never miss with it. How you interpret that is up to you.
• Laintine wrote on 2013-11-03 22:41
  In general how does gunplay compare to archery? Just like, in terms of what it can do and what it's good at.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-11-03 23:09
  Elf range is to human range as giant melee is to human melee. There will be people that will tell you otherwise, but they're entitled to their opinion.
  
  Range isn't as OP as it used to be - against content that elemental reforges work on range is fairly good but without an elemental reforge or on newer content it starts to become apparent really quickly that range is lagging behind. The same can be said to an extent about melee - lances pretty much let you dick on everything though. Newer skillsets are designed so that they don't need elemental reforges (IE: don't need a 55% damage boost), so they're a lot better then some of the older skillsets.
  
  Guns are totally different to range even though they both involve shooting things. [S]Guns arn't good at anything except clearing basic mobs.[/S]
• Syr wrote on 2013-11-03 23:25

  Quote from Gensokyou;1165790:

  [S]Guns arn't good at anything except clearing basic mobs.[/S]

  
  
  [S]mfwducksiggy just wait until i crits with shoot rushing[/S]
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-11-04 01:49

  Quote from Laintine;1165742:

  I'm just coming back after a few years and wanted to see what was up since I'm considering taking my character in that direction.
  
  I see a new skill's been added (Crash Shot) but overall it looks like it's sort of lagging behind other talents in terms of updates? Has it been completely eclipsed by elf archery at this point?

  
  
  Elves are hardly better archers than Humans unless you're up against something which can tank Magnum Shot like the Master Lich, Merrow, Duke, or Sephiroth. Elves generally hold improved Magnum Shot DPS (which will soon face heavy competition from Firebolt) and significantly improved mobility when compared to Humans. I still consider them to be better than Humans at archery, though it now sort of depends on the situation and your build. Compare to melee where Giants are definitely more effective than Humans.
  
  Archery and Melee decimate pretty much all content where they're not resisted, though other talents which are less universally viable will prove to be much more effective in specific situations.
  
  Gunslinger combat is interesting. Dual guns are either the most effective option at your disposal or they're the least effective option, depending on your ability to clear targets.
  
  Regardless, investing into archery requires that you improve your dexterity in order to deal acceptable damage. This is important because it allows you to hit 80% balance with lances (the most effective melee weapons) and it bolsters your puppetry damage, which is another really effective talent.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2013-11-04 01:56
  Human archers aren't much difference from Elf archers. All about the Crash shot and magnum spam.
  Sure, elves can spam magnum just slightly faster, and have Final Shot-Magnum spam, but not much stuff can live through that much magnums.
  
  I find guns useful in taking single targets out using Way of the Gun since it always critical, and doesn't require much loading at all. (Skill and each shot)
• jimpatrick wrote on 2013-11-04 04:29

  Quote from Laintine;1165742:

  
  I see a new skill's been added (Crash Shot) but overall it looks like it's sort of lagging behind other talents in terms of updates? Has it been completely eclipsed by elf archery at this point?

  
  
  elves can spam magnum shot when final shot is activated but meh i only use crash shot and ar for finishes every time i use archery id rather go with smash (2h,dw,lance) or fighter than to aim magnum shot lol.
• Laintine wrote on 2013-11-04 12:47
  Misc observation: I see a lot more elves and giants (especially giants) than I used to.
  
  I'm gonna transmute this into a more general questions thread for myself now if that's ok:
  Are gladius still the ideal early-game dual-wield melee weapons? And would you say WM and Refine are still important to get to r1 early on?
• nandattebayo wrote on 2013-11-04 13:19
  I'd recommend beam swords with a couple balance enchants like Strider and Sight. Windmill is always important to rank first unless you have easy access to -CP gear, and since the Enlightenment update, Refine is even more important for balance.
• Laintine wrote on 2013-11-04 13:32
  How could I possibly afford that? D:
• nandattebayo wrote on 2013-11-04 13:34
  Beam swords are free with seals, and pretty cheap with gold.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-11-04 13:35
  Eweca gacha and adventurer's shop gives out beam swords. You should be able to afford them pretty cheaply.
  
  If not, 222 upgraded broadswords can work pretty well as "I have no money" replacements. The ideal melee probably looks something like this:
  
  Lances >>>>>>>>>>>> Dual R6 enchanted Battle swords > Sword of Elsinore + bastard sword ego > Rainbow beam swords >> 222 broads > Glads.
  
  Windmill and refine are as important as ever. Refine barely needs fails now, thanks to reforges.