Morality?

• 800mans wrote on 2014-01-04 05:18
  So I was reading a really interesting post in Mabinogi talk about a dropped item, its closed now but it made me wonder about a few questions.
  
  Are humans born naturally with some sort of moral template? Or is our morality entirely defined by our environment? Or is it a mix? If yes, what is the nature of that template with reference to our *western social standards*. Ie: does it allow stealing, etc, are we born *bad* or *good*.
  
  I was wondering if anyone had significant experience with two contrasting cultures where the children may behave completely differently. Or if they happened to meet a thieving culture, has anyone ever asked the thief if they think they're doing something okay?
  
  (I may get flamed for this), but what is the purpose of kindness? Where did kindness come from? Is it a definition of being a *civil, sound human* or are we kind because we've been influenced to believe that we should be kind?
  
  
  I realize that if you dig too deep into some of these questions it all ends up being based on something like-> you cannot define a relative concept. I was just curious to see what people thought of these issues.
• Natural Harmonia Gropius wrote on 2014-01-04 07:01
  I sense a religious debate being spawned from this.
• Tropa wrote on 2014-01-04 07:11

  Quote from Natural Harmonia Gropius;1184544:

  I sense a religious debate being spawned from this.

  
  
  Oh god no
• Ketchup wrote on 2014-01-04 07:21
  This won't end good.
• Genny wrote on 2014-01-04 07:27
  Let's talk about shota instead.
• Natural Harmonia Gropius wrote on 2014-01-04 07:31

  Quote from Genny;1184550:

  Let's talk about shota instead.

  
  
  This sounds like a better topic.
• Loopulse wrote on 2014-01-04 08:19

  Quote from Tropa;1184546:

  Oh god no

  
  
  God should be capitalized, you crazy liberal! (lol)
• Shanghai wrote on 2014-01-04 09:09
  Same species, because humans found it easier to kill giant mammoths when they worked together
• Genny wrote on 2014-01-04 09:30

  Quote from Natural Harmonia Gropius;1184553:

  This sounds like a better topic.

  
  
  Requesting dump.
• 800mans wrote on 2014-01-04 10:16
  Yea my next question was going to be on religion but i deleted it since I realized people would be too passionate for or against it lolz. I guess I inherently implied religious discussion by asking questions that would lead up to one. But a big question is: say someone is brainwashed into believing that killing, thieving, etc. are all humane acts. Do you think that person will feel some sort of unexplained guilt associated with committing those acts? Even if his brain jumps in and rationally defeats that *guilt* , does the guilt occur at all?-> Very blatantly put: Can one feel good when seeing humans suffer if they're raised that way or is ones rational aspect of the brain able to override emotions?
• Kaeporo wrote on 2014-01-04 16:28

  Quote from 800mans;1184521:

  So I was reading a really interesting post in Mabinogi talk about a dropped item, its closed now but it made me wonder about a few questions.
  
  Are humans born naturally with some sort of moral template? Or is our morality entirely defined by our environment? Or is it a mix? If yes, what is the nature of that template with reference to our *western social standards*. Ie: does it allow stealing, etc, are we born *bad* or *good*.
  
  I was wondering if anyone had significant experience with two contrasting cultures where the children may behave completely differently. Or if they happened to meet a thieving culture, has anyone ever asked the thief if they think they're doing something okay?
  
  (I may get flamed for this), but what is the purpose of kindness? Where did kindness come from? Is it a definition of being a *civil, sound human* or are we kind because we've been influenced to believe that we should be kind?
  
  
  I realize that if you dig too deep into some of these questions it all ends up being based on something like-> you cannot define a relative concept. I was just curious to see what people thought of these issues.

  
  
  Nature provides the building materials while nurture provides the blueprint. You may not be born with the same materials as another person but it's likely that people from the same cultural background will have similar designs. Ultimately, we're all just building structures with minimal differences.
  
  The key point i'm making is that one of the strongest traits which human beings possess is our ability to reason. You can make whatever you want. You just need the knowledge and the willpower to do so.
  
  You have to make educated decisions as to what is right and what is wrong. You need to be able to understand that despite the previous statement, not everything is black or white. Things cannot be both one thing and their opposite unless viewed from different perspectives. Conclude that you don't have all of the answers, humans are very frequently wrong, and mistakes provide wonderful opportunities to learn.
  
  There is no such thing as good or bad, speaking relatively. However, you must objectify things in order to be productive. This is why man created laws.
  
  I'm probably completely incorrect about all of this stuff but if nothing else, i'm thinking about it logically. I know that i'm thinking about it and I presume that i'm using logic. I know that i'm thinking about thinking about it. I understand that other people will have different viewpoints and that's alright because ultimately it just goes to show that humans don't all have some sort of fixed moral template from birth and even if they do, they deviate from it enough for that point to become irrelevant.
  
  Religion does not promote the use of critical thinking skills, favoring faith in their place. It serves a purpose by establishing order through the effective control of logic. It's neither right or wrong...it's simply, less.
• 800mans wrote on 2014-01-04 20:50
  ^ Might be off-topic but what are your personal views on logic/reason? Can it be free from personal bias in *most circumstances*? Is logic/reason in its most inherent nature subjective? Personally I believe that if you trace back any reasoning/logic you probably arrive at some sort of axiom that is subjective.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2014-01-04 21:07

  Quote from 800mans;1184626:

  ^ Might be off-topic but what are your personal views on logic/reason? Can it be free from personal bias in *most circumstances*? Is logic/reason in its most inherent nature subjective? Personally I believe that if you trace back any reasoning/logic you probably arrive at some sort of axiom that is subjective.

  
  
  It's ultimately traced back to some form of bias. That bias may stem from your own personal belief system, your culture, or even all of humanity. The gross root of all logic is that our line of thinking is very human. Thus we pray folly to our own tells and believe strongly that the calculations and perceptions which we have made are accurate.
  
  We cannot prove or disprove anything because as seen time and again, we can't possibly know what is true without knowing what is false. That is the relativist's way of thinking.
  
  Objectively speaking, you can define things once you start setting constants. You could, for example, state that you want something and that statement could be true in itself. However, in order for you to declare that you "need" something you must define the purpose of the need. You do not need anything. You may, however, need something in order to fulfill something else.
  
  Essentially, nothing is inherently subjective to people. Humans objectify things in order to effectively communicate.
  
  Existence itself is absolutely concrete but it's unlikely that we'll ever fully comprehend it.