What is harder content?/Design your dungeons

• burntjam wrote on 2014-01-30 19:32
  Let monsters with advanced heavy stander use puppets and spam crisis and climatic crash. Haha that would be funny with a party involved [S]but frustrating at the same time.[/S]
• wildk wrote on 2014-01-30 20:01

  Quote from Kenero;1192937:

  [SIZE="3"]Sidhe Snow Dungeon[/SIZE]

  
  
  Great dungeon that finally puts life skills to more use in dungeoning although it's more of a "who has more skills ranked" test isn't it?
  
  Will player reception for this as harder content be good?
• Kenero wrote on 2014-01-30 21:39

  Quote from wildk;1193256:

  Great dungeon that finally puts life skills to more use in dungeoning although it's more of a "who has more skills ranked" test isn't it?
  
  Will player reception for this as harder content be good?

  
  
  The truth is, unless it's RP based, players with more skills, level, and better equipment will always fare better or easier than those without it.
  
  As for skill-wise, a majority of our power actually comes from our equipment and the type of weapon we have. It'll be interesting to have a dungeon in which it gets progressively harder but you have to make and create as you go from scratch.
  
  Plus it'll be easier to scale monsters when you aren't taking reforges into account.
  
  Meaning devCat can plan harder monsters easier. ^^
• Kaeporo wrote on 2014-01-31 11:05

  Quote from Paradise;1193214:

  actual content can be hard enough if you are not reforged
  reforging yourself? that's another story then, content is always easy
  
  new and harder content? fix the reforge system first, make it less OP, or give some monsters a skill to nullify Reforge bonus, then we have a start point
  
  No, don't come with that lie about "i wipe out everything on Lord/peaca int/abyss with no need of reforges (not including puppets, but they can have a hard time with multi-aggro to the point of being useless without stunt pets)" cause I've seen many people fall after we do reforged-less runs, and they end accepting that fact in a way or another
  
  rewards? yea they should add better rewards, i agree
  
  @OP sounds great, i love puzzle games/dungeons

  
  
  This is no longer the case. All combat styles besides Melee, Range, and Martial Arts are incredibly powerful without reforges.
  
  Pretty much nothing is really difficult for an end-game player; few things should be difficult for a decently developed character who is around level 2~3K.
  
  A lot of people will bitch and moan about reforges breaking Mabinogi while excusing AOE pet summons, which are the bigger problem full-stop.
• Froglord of DESTINY!!! wrote on 2014-01-31 11:27
  Just give mobs the ability to obliterate equipment dura.
  Also a "curse" status effect that blackens half your MP bar like wounds or hunger.
  Traps that teleport you back to the first goddess statue
  Using skills to open doors, like the dungeoneering system on runescape.
  Enemies that scale based on total party level, like falias, instead of that basic ~ ellite bullcrap.
  
  and most of all
  
  [SPOILER=" "]Teamwork, not peenwork, there is no "I" in team, there needs to be more ways to cooperatively bring players together, to work together instead of having newbs constantly go "GTFO I WANNA STROKE MY E-PEEN WITH CLIMATIC CRASH, AND WATCH MY PUPPETS CRIT".
  
  Believe it or not, mapletrash's playerbase has a better sense of teamwork than mabi would ever have.[/SPOILER]
• Tropa wrote on 2014-01-31 14:25
  Well, I just wanna post a list of thing I Don't wanna see from dungeons & missions.
  
  Same mobs over and over again
  Sure, using a single type of mob in a dungeon is given, like kolbolds in Math Dungeon, but I wanna see way more verity, not just your basic Warrior, archer and mage mix, I wanna see more Gunslinger, Bard, Fighter and Alchemist enemies. Just seeing the same wave of mobs 15+ in a dungeon/mission run is just to repetitive and stale.
  
  Long-pointless hallways
  Pretty basic, who wants to deal with these? long, empty & boring hallways, I can understand if thy need to make the long hallways to help the map coill/spiral towards the boss room, but still.
  
  Useless waves
  You know exactly what I'm talking about, the mimics, the bats and the annoying rats.
  
  Fireball Crystals
  Yup, who wants to break their back, lose durability on their precious weapon which they slaved for, just to gain some thing useless as a advanced magic crystal? I wouldn't mind getting extra gold from my end-chest along side the mission's reward gold.
• Kenero wrote on 2014-01-31 15:36
  Continuing from before...
  
  [SIZE="3"]Monsters[/SIZE]
  
  Monsters exist in the dungeon but the types encountered is different depending on the area. Every area has new monsters to introduce as well as possible old monsters coming out to play in certain puzzle types. Of course, early floors such as Lonely Castle and Cursed Wine Cellar are easy to defeat enemies, as the area and floor number gets harder, so do the introduction of enemies and their skills.
  
  
  [spoiler="Lonely Castle"]
  
  Servant Zombie
  A common zombie type monster. Unlike normal zombies, these run at a human speed. They are easy to dispatch though for weaker adventurers, may pose a threat due to their numerous monster. They possess the following skill:
  - Smash
  - Counter
  - Defense
  - Windmill
  - Assault Slash
  
  "You, wipe your boots before entering. Ahahaha" - Servant Zombie
  
  Maestro Skeleton
  A skeleton dressed nicely in a penguin suit. These skeletons are dangerous and that they come in two varieties, with a wand casting lightning bolt or a wand casting firebolt. Maestro Skeletons tend to keep distance from the player as they cast their spells.
  - Firebolt (with fire wand)
  - Lightningbolt (with lightning wand)
  - Counter
  - Defense
  
  "Listen to my beautiful orchestra!" - Maestro Skeleton
  
  Zombie Healer
  A cute zombie with twin pig tails, a healer's dress, and holding a healing wand. Usually appears in Magical Altar rooms or Battle Rooms. She uses party healing to heal her allies. She will try to keep her distance from her allies, but she is not afraid to fight with her knife.
  - Party Healing
  - Windmill
  - Counterattack
  
  "I... It's not like I want to heal you or anything!" - Zombie Healer
  
  
  Vampire Bats - Typical Vampire bats found in other dungeons in Erinn. I don't need to explain or list their skills.
  
  
  Castle Golem - Floor Boss
  A black version of the Castle Golem found in Theatre Mission. When he is at half hp, he will summon 3 Servant Zombies, 1 Healer Zombie, and 1 Zombie Maestro.
  
  Ancient Knight - Floor Boss (appears between Floor 14~19)
  An ancient headless knight that resembles a dullahan but with moss and vine over his armor, and significantly bigger. He carries level 1 of each passive defense. His large sword has a large swing and combine with his advance heavy stander, makes him a formidable enemy. Luckily he can be stunned, even if he can't be knocked back. However he has skills to ensure he can't be kept waiting long. Being a noble knight, he will not summon any enemies midbattle.
  - Smash
  - Assault Slash
  - Windmill
  - Shockwave (can reach for 1200 radius)
  
  
  Noble Vampire- Area Boss, appears at the last floor of Lonely Castle, floor 20.
  Noble Vampire appears similar as Duke and possess all of his skills. However, due to eons of being sealed, his power has quite weaken, but nevertheless quite deadly. He will summon 3 Maestro Skeletons, 3 Zombie Servants, and 1 Zombie Healer.
  
  
  [/spoiler]
  
  
  [spoiler="Cursed Wine Cellar"]
  
  Wine Cellar will include the previous monsters in Lonely Castle in addition to:
  
  
  Wine Ghost Soldier
  A ghostly soldier who has died while drinking the cursed wine. This ghost is dangerous due to his ability to teleport around and his use of final hit. However when he teams up with other monsters, it is easy to lose sight of him. He is highly durable and his use of twin swords can be devastating.
  - Teleportation
  - Final Hit
  - Smash
  - Counter
  - Assault Slash
  
  
  Corrupted Taster
  A wine lover who died in the Wine Cellar. Once a noble, he takes pride in his knowledge of magic and will snap cast fireballs, thunder, or ice spear from behind. Fortunately, his life as a noble has no hardened his body, even in death, so a few blows can easily take him down.
  - Counter
  - Windmill
  - Fireball (chain cast)
  - Thunder (chain cast)
  - Ice Spear (chain cast)
  
  
  Candle Spider (Blue)
  A ghastly spider with relatively high hp. They spawned in packs and usually in tandem with other mobs. What makes this dangerous is that Candle Spiders, when successfully attacking the player (except triggering the player's defense or counterattack), the player's CURRENT mana will be cut in half. If a player has 800 mana, it will be cut to 400. Subsequent attacks will be cut down to 200 and then to 100, 50, 25, 12, 6, etc. However unlike the normal spider counterpart, each hit they do is a knockback. However being mob by these spiders can be quite dangerous.
  - Defense
  
  
  Candle Spider (Yellow)
  Same as the Candle Spider (Blue), except this one cuts a player's current stamina in half with each successful attack.
  
  To be continued.
  
  
  Cursed Wine
  A cursed wine using the model for the dungeon fountains is set in the room. This is a npc that is unattackable. It serves like a cerebres in Shadow Mission but serves as a special property. When the wine is black, all attacks are allowed. When the wine is blue, only magic-based attacks (if it triggers mana pd) are allowed. When the wine is yellow, only range type attacks are allowed. When the wine is white, healing of any type, either from skills or potions are forbidden. The wine color changes every minute. The effects applies to both monsters and players.
  
  
  Depraved Dog
  A dog that lives feeding off the carcass of the dead rats and other small animals. While this dog is quick, what makes him deadly is that play dead does not work on him at all. He can also detect elves who are hiding, thanks to his nose.
  - Smash
  - Counterattack
  - Defense
  - Ability to detect enemies that are playing dead or hiding
  
  
  Mysterious Young Girl - Floor Boss
  A young girl who is seen playing in the wine cellar. She wears a white dress, with blue eyes and long white hair. It looks like she is enjoying herself. Despite her small stature, she has high magical power and when enough damage is done, she gets frightened and summons her "friends" to help make the "game fair".
  - Smash
  - Counterattack
  - Shockwave
  - Defense * When in defense, she is able to reflect 80% damage back to the user, even when using skills such as smash.
  - Shock
  - Icespear
  - Bind (players are unable to move but can attack)
  - Teleportation
  - Summon Monsters (2x Candle Spider (Blue), 2x Candle Spider (Yellow), 2x Depraved Dogs, 2x Zombie Servant, 2x Maestro Skeleton.
  
  
  Cursed Painting - Floor Boss, appears between Floors 34~39
  A cursed painting that looks like a beautiful woman. While the painting cannot move from the wall and can be freely attacked, she has long range attacks to compensate. She also possess level 1 heavy stander, level 2 natural range, and level 2 mana deflector.
  - Summon Barrier Spikes - Summons barrier spikes to deter attacks. These are rank 1 barrier spikes that can reflect melee damage back to the user.
  - Thunder (chain cast)
  - Fireball (chain cast)
  - Ice Spear (chain cast)
  - Life Drain (monster)
  - Silence (prevents any skill from being use for a limited time)
  - Shockwave
  - Summon Monsters (4x Wine Ghost Soldier, 4x Corrupted Taster, 2x Depraved Dog)
  - Sorrow Sonata (Cancels all buff from music, food, cancels out transformations, berserker, and personas)
  
  
  The Noble Lady - Area Boss, found on Floor 40 on the last floor of the Cursed Wine Cellar
  A beautiful young lady with long flowing white hair, a beautiful dress, white skin, and gentle blue eyes. She greatly resembles the Mysterious Young Girl. She holds a parasol as she walks around. She is quite deadly, possessing advance heavy stander as well as level 2 of each passive defense.
  - Shockwave (1,500 reach in all radius, closer to the lady deals more damage)
  - Teleportation
  - Illusion Scythe (attack that hits in a wide arc infront similar to the Grimm Reapers)
  - Silence (all skills are unusable for a time period)
  - Sorrow Sonata (Cancels all buff from music, food, cancels out transformations, berserker, and personas)
  - Life Drain (monster)
  - Shock
  - Raincast (rank 1 and damages the player)
  - Piercing Parasol - Wide attack that ignores any skills such as counter, defense, windmill, and mana shield. Bypasses even defense, mana defense, protection, and mana protection. Has a 100% wound rate if connected. Can miss if the player is able to get out of its attack radius in time.
  - Summon Monsters (4x depraved dogs, 2x Wine Ghost Soldier, 2x Corrupted Wine Taster, 3x Candle Spider (blue), 3x Candle Spider (yellow)
  
  
  
  
  [/spoiler]
  
  Adding the mobs for each area...
• Kenero wrote on 2014-01-31 19:51
  Added the first two area monsters. What are your opinion?
  
  Also to note, there is no pet summoning since it is disabled, and all equipment here are either made or found. The only thing you have to rely on are your stats, skill ranks, titles, and of course other people. =)
  
  Should I write more about the equipment, food/cooking, etc, or something specifically?
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-01-31 21:13

  Quote from Kaeporo;1193445:

  AOE pet summons, which are the bigger problem full-stop.

  
  
  I'm quite sure that a team of 1-2k players with G10-G12 level equips and 3 AOE pets each would struggle in SS Elite, Peaca Int, Fortinbras HM, or similar content that was endgame for the time period. And the fact that it used to take WAAAAAY more skill notwithstanding, pets have always been a major force multiplier in Mabinogi even before they were AOE.
  
  The most degenerate content in Mabinogi in terms of "making the game too easy" are:
  
  Battlefield Overture
  Crisis
  Singing/Lullaby
  Overall player strength that's more or less outleveled endgame content
  
  AOE Pets are somewhere below those factors.
• Tyskiyomy wrote on 2014-01-31 21:33

  Quote from Froglord of DESTINY!!!;1193448:

  There is no "I" in team

  
  There is a 'Me' if you rearrange the letters :llama_blush:
• Elleanior wrote on 2014-01-31 23:48

  Quote from Froglord of DESTINY!!!;1193448:

  eamwork, not peenwork, there is no "I" in team, there needs to be more ways to cooperatively bring players together, to work together instead of having newbs constantly go "GTFO I WANNA STROKE MY E-PEEN WITH CLIMATIC CRASH, AND WATCH MY PUPPETS CRIT".
  
  Believe it or not, mapletrash's playerbase has a better sense of teamwork than mabi would ever have.

  
  
  Yes there is.
  

  [Image: https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSG0vlruUzAZQvyVLVWQqdBEYUciyET9Dz39kHRVbwxVkBRO3-X]

  
  Unfortunately, it's in the asshole.
• Froglord of DESTINY!!! wrote on 2014-02-02 00:37
  To be honest, I haven't seen a MMO community as selfish and as arrogant as mabi's. People look for MMO's for the people aspect, and to socialise in place of their non-existent social life in reality. However mabi has become another Korean dps shitfest of e-peen like LoL, which can ultimately turn people away.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-02 00:44
  >lol
  >turning people away
  
  lel
  
  also having actually played league I can assure you LoL's community is 10x as bad as mabi
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-02-02 00:50
  every community has it's filth.
• Tropa wrote on 2014-02-04 21:40
  Infiltration of Tara - Lord Mission
  
  "The fomors have taken over the city of Tara in the shadow realm! help our agents wipe them out."
  
  

  Mission Size: 8 People
  Time Limit: 1 Hour(s)
  Rewards: 500k EXP and 75k Gold
  [SPOILER="Reward List"]- Thames Pieces
  - Hebona Pieces
  - Bohemian Pieces
  - Cressida Pieces
  - Trinity Pieces
  - Oblivion Enchant
  - Champion Enchant
  - Frozen Enchant
  - Cartel Enchant
  - Solo Enchant
  - Wave Enchant
  - Abysmal Enchant
  - Daunting Enchant
  - Upgrade Stones
  - Conversion Stone
  [/SPOILER]

  
  
  Part one
  [SPOILER="Map and Keys"]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/x1CHAQA.png]

  [/SPOILER]
  Take out all the waves of monsters shown above on the map, afterwords to and your party stands on the circle and talk to the agent(Just like in Hostage) and then get moved to the next spawn point(B). do the same here and reach the agent on the side of the castle walls.
  - Roughly 3~5 Waves at each spawn point.
  - Tower Cylinder Alchemists and Archers possesses increased aggro and attack range.
  [SPOILER="Monster Spawn List"]Spawn Points
  Silver Bone Lancers(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Uses actual Lances
  - Smash, Lance-Counter, Defense, Windmill and Lance-Charge
  
  Silver Bone Gunslinger(Lord)
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Aggros instantly
  - Basic Attack, Flash Launcher, Shooting Rush & Bullet Storm
  
  Silver Bone Fighters(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Range Ping lv2
  - Smash, Counter, Defense & Windmill
  
  Silver Bone Marital Artist
  - Aggros instantly
  - Charging strike, Spinning Uppercut, Pummel, Counter Punch & Evasion
  
  Gold Bone Lancers(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Uses actual Lances
  - Smash, Lance-Counter, Defense, Windmill and Lance-Charge
  
  Gold Bone Gunslinger(Lord)
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Aggros instantly
  - Basic Attack, Flash Launcher, Shooting Rush & Bullet Storm
  
  Gold Bone Fighters(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Range Ping lv2
  - Smash, Counter, Defense & Windmill
  
  Gold Bone Marital Artist
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Aggros instantly
  - Charging strike, Spinning Uppercut, Pummel, Counter Punch & Evasion
  
  Shadow Ghost(Lord)
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Range Ping lv2
  - Smash, Teleportation, Chain Cast, Thunder & Ice Spear
  
  Behind Barriers
  Arat Tower Cylinder Alchemist(Lord)
  - Range Ping lv2
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Advanced Heavy Stander, Watercannon, Windblast, Life Drain & Chain Cylinder
  
  Silver Bone Archer(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Magnum Shot, Arrow Revolver, Crashshot & Support Shot
  
  Gold Bone Archer(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Magnum Shot, Arrow Revolver, Crashshot & Support Shot[/SPOILER]
  
  Part Two
  [SPOILER="Map and Keys"]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/82nzn0m.png]

  [/SPOILER]
  Clear the orb rooms and proceed through the unlockable metal gates.
  - the hallways will have numerous archers and blinkers with increased aggro ranges.
  [SPOILER="Monster Spawn List"]Orb Rooms
  Ghost of Partholon(Lord)
  - Smash, Counter, Defense & Final Hit
  
  Black Sulfur Spider(Lord)
  - Windmill & Defense
  
  Red Sulfur Spider(Lord)
  - Windmill & Defense
  
  Advanced Corrupted Alchemist(Lord)
  - Mana Ping lv3
  - Dual Wields Cylinders
  - Watercannon, Flameburst, Shock, Frozenblast & Chain Cylinder
  
  Stone/Forest/Sulfur/Snow Golem(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Range Ping lv3
  - Smash, Defense, Windmill & Stomp
  
  Advanced Python Shaman
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Mana Ping lv3
  - Lightning bolt, Defense, Counter & Chain casting
  
  Shadow Wizard(Lord)
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Firebolt, Lightning bolt, Thunder, Chain Cast & Spellwalk
  
  Golemancer(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv3
  - Range Ping lv3
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Summon Golem, Defense & Counter
  
  Ghost of Pharolon Cleric(Lord)
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Party Healing
  
  Giant Ghost of Partholon(Lord)
  - Melee ping lv2
  - Smash, Counter, Assault Slash, Defense & Final Hit
  
  HallWay
  Silver Bone Archer(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Magnum Shot, Arrow Revolver, Crashshot & Support Shot
  
  Gold Bone Archer(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Magnum Shot, Arrow Revolver, Crashshot & Support Shot
  
  Blinker(Lord)
  - Melee Ping lv2
  - Range Ping lv2
  - Mana Ping lv2
  - Beholder Beam & Summon Minon.[/SPOILER]
  
  Boss
  [SPOILER="Boss Room Spawns"]Ghost of Pharolon Cleric(Lord) x 1
  Advanced Corrupted Alchemist(Lord) x 3
  Gold Bone Fighters(Lord) x 3
  Snow Golem(Lord) x8
  
  Enraged Dullahan
  - Melee, Mana and Range Ping lv2
  - Throws 5 Tomahawks instead of one, if a fan shape.
  - Advanced Heavy stander, Axe Throw, Smash, Berserk, Summon Steed & Life Drain
  
  Enraged Hell Steed
  - Melee, Mana, Range Ping lv2
  - Road and Summoned by Enraged Dullahan
  - Smash, Counter, Defense & Stampede[/SPOILER]