[Discussion - Game Balance] Current skills that needs tweaking?

• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2014-02-07 14:03

  Quote from arochia246;1195756:

  Smash damage already goes on accessories. Assuming you have two lv. 3s and they stack, that's 60% added to your smash, without Thames. That's more than enough.

  
  
  Reforges don't stack, though.
• arochia246 wrote on 2014-02-07 15:44

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1195759:

  Reforges don't stack, though.

  
  
  It may have been an error of syntax on my part, but I meant "assuming they stack."
• nana wrote on 2014-02-07 15:57

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1195759:

  Reforges don't stack, though.

  
  
  reforges do stack.
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-02-07 17:16
  If you guys want to post skills you think should be nerfed or buffed or so forth, I would suggest coming up with a way to do so and posting it so I/we can be on the same page.
  

  Quote from nana;1195782:

  reforges do stack.

  
  So you're saying skill damage modifier reforges stack now? In NA? I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I would like some quantifiable proof.
• nana wrote on 2014-02-07 18:08

  Quote from Zekkii;1195801:

  
  So you're saying skill damage modifier reforges stack now? In NA? I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I would like some quantifiable proof.

  
  
  [S]ggrks[/S]
  
  [SPOILER="crisis raw damage"]
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/olgrabm.jpg]

  [/SPOILER]
  
  [SPOILER="with 1 Crisis Damage Modification Lv1 reforge on acc"]
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/ZfXq61O.jpg]

  [/SPOILER]
  
  [SPOILER="with 2 Crisis Damage Modification Lv1 reforge on acc"]
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/rJLgaPL.jpg]

  
  [/SPOILER]
  
  all my stats are on these pic as well, so ppl can do da math on their own...
  
  also, healing reforge does stack as well, tho in kinda weird manner...
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-02-07 18:23
  Grapple Shot
  Minimum Distance restrictions are removed, and it now stuns the target when you are pulled towards them
  
  Frenzy/Shockwave/Doppel/Other % of SP/HP/MP Skills
  % usage is turned to 3x their value in straight number: E.G. 10% stamina -> 30 stamina
  
  Crossbuster
  Now has activation similar to smash, and reforge adds 15% damage per level
  
  Bullet Storm & Shooting Rush
  Now limit acquired aggro from these skills to 2 targets
• Tropa wrote on 2014-02-07 18:27

  Quote from Zekkii;1195819:

  Frenzy/Shockwave/Doppel/Other % of SP/HP/MP Skills
  % usage is turned to 3x their value in straight number: E.G. 10% stamina -> 30 stamina

  
  
  [S]..So you want WC to gain damage from 90% of the user's current mana...?
  
  All heil the new master race ladies and gents.[/S]
  
  Edit: nvm, misread
• Ren wrote on 2014-02-07 21:09
  Handicraft
  Make it easier to train since the skill itself is practically useless.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-02-07 21:17

  Quote from Ren;1195865:

  Handicraft
  Make it easier to train since the skill itself is practically useless.

  
  
  I'm only opposed to this since I ranked it already. :blush:
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-07 21:53
  >magic hits higher numbers than most other skillsets so nerf it
  >disregard context
  
  That's the same ridiculous logic that got magic into the trash bin in the first place.
  
  Pretty much all of magic's efficiency comes when someone uses Crisis on a given mob. You have to have Crisis to attain maximum efficiency with Blaze in NPC, and Hailstorm is really hard to get off unless you have time to load before the mobs spawn/attack.
  
  Firebolt does a lot of damage but your rate of growth tails off once you have MWM - after that a lot of the power comes from capping a fire wand ego.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-07 22:03

  Quote from Kaeporo;1195623:

  Reduce the effectiveness of elemental reforges from 11.1% per level to 5.5% per level. Render all enemies vulnerable to elemental reforges.

  
  
  yes
  
  

  Reduce the effectiveness of pet summon skills. Summon skills consume 20~40 of the respective pet's mana per summon.

  
  
  yes
  
  Reduce the effectiveness of Battlefield Overture from 20% to 10% damage.

  
  

  
  
  Overture should not give % at all, it should give flat max.
  
  Actually I think it wouldn't be a bad thing if Overture was deleted.
  
  

  Reduce the magic attack coefficient on all magic skills (excluding shockwave and meteor strike) by 20%.

  
  
  Since everything else is being nerfed...but nerfing Crisis heavily nerfs Blaze and Hailstorm anyway, and the int magics don't need nerfs at all.
  
  

  Every 20 Will adds +1.0% to Critical chance.

  
  
  yes
  
  

  Enemy protection reduces critical rate by 3%.

  
  
  probably not needed with the luck nerfs
  
  

  AOE skills like Windmill no longer ignore the target's protection when calculating critical hit rate.

  
  
  I think crit should be nerfed but that's too big a nerf.
  
  

  Pierce reduces enemy defense by 5 and protection by 4 per level.

  
  
  I guess
  
  

  Every 5 Str adds +1 to Maximum Control Bar Damage; +8 Str adds +1 to Minimum Control Bar Damage.
  Every 5 Dex adds +1 to Maximum Control Bar Damage; +8 Dex adds +1 to Minimum Control Bar Damage.

  
  
  Yes
  
  

  User's Damage, Critical, and Balance added to Marionette raised to 100%.

  
  
  Ehhh, whatever.
  
  

  Climactic Crash damage reduced to 500% at r1.
  

  
  
  Yes
  
  

  Crisis now has a 35~90% chance of successfully pulling targets, depending on rank.

  
  
  Yes
  
  

  Crisis glitch patched.
  

  
  
  Yes
  

  
  Vales Shield active defense use no longer reduces damage to nil.

  
  
  YES
  
  

  Armor/Weapon crafting bonuses (defense/damage) are increased by 500%.

  
  
  YES
  
  

  Sharp Ammunition can be produced through Handicraft.

  
  
  Yes
  
  In a "nerf everything" list I pretty much agree with all of it, though you will have to retune a lot of the magic coefficients because they won't decrease magic damage by a flat 20%.
  
  The issue with firebolt btw is that most of the damage comes from Magic Weapon Mastery (easy to get) and not MATK, which after the first 500 INT is actually quite AP intensive to build (thus hard to get). So I propose the following change (assuming we're not doing a "nerf everything" set of rebalances)
  
  Magic Weapon Mastery now increases bolt damage by 1.5x and increases all magic casting speed by 20%
  Icebolt damage coefficient is now 0.5-1.0
  Firebolt damage coefficient is now 1.0-1.5
  Lightning Bolt damage coefficient is now 0.5-2.0
• Kyubey wrote on 2014-02-07 23:08

  Quote from nana;1195816:

  [S]ggrks[/S]
  
  [SPOILER="crisis raw damage"]
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/olgrabm.jpg]

  [/SPOILER]
  
  [SPOILER="with 1 Crisis Damage Modification Lv1 reforge on acc"]
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/ZfXq61O.jpg]

  [/SPOILER]
  
  [SPOILER="with 2 Crisis Damage Modification Lv1 reforge on acc"]
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/rJLgaPL.jpg]

  
  [/SPOILER]
  
  all my stats are on these pic as well, so ppl can do da math on their own...
  
  also, healing reforge does stack as well, tho in kinda weird manner...

  
  
  Some reforges stack, others don't. General rule is that reforges that affect skills in a % way don't stack and only the highest value takes effect.
  As for your screenshots they hardly show anything as they're within your min/max+balance values
• nana wrote on 2014-02-08 09:05

  Quote from Kyubey;1195905:

  Some reforges stack, others don't. General rule is that reforges that affect skills in a % way don't stack and only the highest value takes effect.
  As for your screenshots they hardly show anything as they're within your min/max+balance values

  
  
  do your math correctly.
• Kyubey wrote on 2014-02-08 14:37

  Quote from nana;1196042:

  do your math correctly.

  
  
  I didn't even had to do any math, you do 1116 dmg without, you do 1143 with 1 and 1171 with 2. As far as anything goes you could hit 1171 without any accessories. The damage difference is too low to be a good example
  Hell, can't even do any math considering i have no idea how much puppet max you have >>
• nana wrote on 2014-02-08 16:43

  Quote from Kyubey;1196072:

  I didn't even had to do any math, you do 1116 dmg without, you do 1143 with 1 and 1171 with 2. As far as anything goes you could hit 1171 without any accessories. The damage difference is too low to be a good example
  Hell, can't even do any math considering i have no idea how much puppet max you have >>

  
  Kyubey, don't rush into conclusion and say one is wrong just because you THINK you know the stuff(in reality, it wasn't the truth tho).
  If you weren't too sure what one is saying/providing, you can always ask for more info first. This is what you should have done first.
  [S]Good thing you've done it on here instead of doing it on rl first lol.[/S]
  
  ofc, I have all r1 marionette, control, and crisis.
  I thought ppl can easily assume that one has them three skills ranked to r1 since one(in this case, its me) isn't giving anything special besides the reforge value.
  But I'll apologize my mistake, if this is why you ended being like that.
  Perhaps, this might be why Zekki didn't reply to my post as well >.<
  
  anyway, that being said, let's clear things one by one.
  My max on pict was 468 so 70% of that is 327.6.
  r1 puppet gives 190max
  r1 control gives 55max
  combine them three, you get 572.6, and so my puppet max is 573.
  
  now, R1 crisis deals 200% of puppet max.
  and each level of Crisis Magnification Damage Reforge gives 5% to crisis' multiplier.
  Following are the POSSIBLE(against 0/0 mob) max damage you can deal with my stat and crisis:
  R1 crisis only(200%) : 1146
  with 1 reforge(205%) :1174
  with 2 reforges(210%):1203
  
  
  now let's look at the damage formula.
  To be honest, after g-18, things have changed a lot due to Enlightenment and pretty much no one has clue how they can find real damage formula.
  I myself kinda found that Brown-Tailed Mongoose (1/1 mob) reduce my damage by 2.6% approximately. (because I wasn't able to hit higher than 1116 with just R1 crisis against mongoose)
  
  
  While I do not know the REAL formula, I found out ppl on internet been using following formula to calculate how much one can deal against the mobs;
  Damage Dealt = [(Damage-(Defense-defense pierce))*50]/(50+protection)
  Bolded part, we put our damage in. in this case 1146,1174, or 1203.
  as for underlined part, if defense pierce is higher than mob's defense, it will not go below 0.
  and this formula does work very nicely.
  While not giving the exact value, it does give value that is very close to real value and therefore I decided to use it.
  
  So after applying our damage into this formula following are what we get:
  R1 Crisis(200%) :1123.5
  with 1 reforge(205%):1150.9
  with 2 reforge(210%):1179.4
  
  Now you can take a look at my pictures again to see if same kind of reforges does stack or not.