Mage considering a secondary skillset

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jgamer wrote on 2014-02-08 07:38

I've got max rank bolts and magic weapon mastery, so if I want to continue training magic, the next step would be to get an intermediate magic (I've chosen thunder for my first). Unfortunately, I have neither the patience to hunt for the pages nor the money to buy them (I'm on Alexina by the way). So I'm considering branching out to a secondary skill set. My choices (in order of preference):

1. Alchemy - With the guard cylinder, this is the best option (besides finding the thunder pages by some miracle) in my opinion. Alchemy has a lot of defensive options to keep enemies away from me and with the guard cylinder, I don't have to switch weapons in the middle of battle. Unfortunately, I'll have to go through generation quests in order to get the best skills (shock anyone?). This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for my tendency to either lag and die or just simply die because of my lack of defensive options (hence why I'm trying to learn a different skillset). I'd also have problems with Mana Deflector since I have no non-magic options.

Additional Question: If I go this route, should I go for guard cylinder mastery, or one of the attack skills.

2. Singing/Bard - The main benefit would be the increased damage range, and like with alchemy, I wouldn't have to switch weapons if I just use sing. However, aside from being able to kill stuff faster, I don't get many defensive options from this. Plus, I'd still have issues against mana deflector.

3. Melee - I've had multiple characters and I can attest to the invaluableness of windmill. However, I loath having to rank it even if it is simpler than it was before. I'll do it, but I won't like it. It does solve the problem of Mana Refractor though, and if I wouldn't be so squishy if I invested in the defensive skills.

4. Fighter - I have Shylien Mana Knuckles, so it would synergize pretty easily, but I've been in situations where the fact that fighter is primarily one vs one has screwed me over. Besides, I prefer Fire-Ice fusion bolts when it comes to bosses and one on one fights.

5. Puppetery - I've had a character that's started out using puppets. It's powerful, but it takes up way too much AP to rank up. I'll consider it later, but for now, I'd rather avoid this.

6. Gunslinger - More of a late-game skill set. Saving this for later.

7. Archery - ...no, just no. I have not had the best of experiences with this skillset (too many times where I've missed at 90%) and I'd prefer to avoid this like the plague.

I mainly just want to use magic to deal my main damage and use other skillsets to keep my options open. Any advice on what I should do?
elemein wrote on 2014-02-08 14:44

Below is just my very, very noob opinion. I don't even know what skillset I want as my primary and secondary, but I did some research for the topic so I hope I'll be of some help:

Alchemy: A possible option and would be feasible as you can cast your bolt spells whilst equipped with a cylinder for those moments where you may be running out of crystals/want to conserve, etc. (you shouldnt run into this situation, but yeah.) However, the enchants needed for good alchemy damage are supposedly very peculiar to alchemists and do not benefit other skillsets very much. In addition to that, if used offensively, both magic and alchemy have fairly long chargetimes for their more powerful skills (alchemy is much shorter; but it's an eternity in comparison to the charge times of something like melee or archery, etc.) This inherit slowness in your character may be a cause of issue.

Bard: I believe if you get r5 Song, you can sing without the need of an instrument, boosting the synergy potential of this skillset. Keep in mind that bard's skills are not very offensive and moreso boost your current skillset, meaning there'd be little to no help in situations where the enemy has mana deflector or you get multiple aggro and no time to charge a rebutle attack. I don't recommend this as something to "solve" problems.

Melee: Luckily melee's skillset can be pretty universal. If you get windmill, you can use the "Very Slow" speed of your wand to stun enemies for a long time in a situation where you are getting multi-aggroed. For situations where there is a mana deflector enemy, you can use Smash with a 2h sword for tons of damage. I recommend getting atleast WM. It can be used super defensively; especially with your wand.

Fighter: Possible, it's the exact polar opposite of a mage (Mana and AoE(or 1v1) while fighter is Melee and 1v1), so it would cover your weaknesses well, but I dont see how fighter and mages can get along very well on the enchant, reforge, etc. front. It's possible, just not super usable.

Puppetry: Again, possible, but if needed in emergency situations... I don't recommend it. Not only as a mage will you do low damage since Puppet's rely on high STR and DEX (a mage with STR?...) but the time it takes to switch to your control bar, call your marionette, start controlling it, positioning it properly and charging a skill would take an eternity in a fast-paced battle. Lag would only make the situation far worse. I don't recommend it.

Gunslinger: Would work well, but like you said, late game.

Archery: Well... If you really hated it, why list it?

Consider the Lancer talent too.
ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-08 17:22

Quote from jgamer;1196034:
I've got max rank bolts and magic weapon mastery, so if I want to continue training magic, the next step would be to get an intermediate magic (I've chosen thunder for my first). Unfortunately, I have neither the patience to hunt for the pages nor the money to buy them (I'm on Alexina by the way). So I'm considering branching out to a secondary skill set. My choices (in order of preference):

1. Alchemy - With the guard cylinder, this is the best option (besides finding the thunder pages by some miracle) in my opinion. Alchemy has a lot of defensive options to keep enemies away from me and with the guard cylinder, I don't have to switch weapons in the middle of battle. Unfortunately, I'll have to go through generation quests in order to get the best skills (shock anyone?). This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for my tendency to either lag and die or just simply die because of my lack of defensive options (hence why I'm trying to learn a different skillset). I'd also have problems with Mana Deflector since I have no non-magic options.

Additional Question: If I go this route, should I go for guard cylinder mastery, or one of the attack skills.

2. Singing/Bard - The main benefit would be the increased damage range, and like with alchemy, I wouldn't have to switch weapons if I just use sing. However, aside from being able to kill stuff faster, I don't get many defensive options from this. Plus, I'd still have issues against mana deflector.

3. Melee - I've had multiple characters and I can attest to the invaluableness of windmill. However, I loath having to rank it even if it is simpler than it was before. I'll do it, but I won't like it. It does solve the problem of Mana Refractor though, and if I wouldn't be so squishy if I invested in the defensive skills.

4. Fighter - I have Shylien Mana Knuckles, so it would synergize pretty easily, but I've been in situations where the fact that fighter is primarily one vs one has screwed me over. Besides, I prefer Fire-Ice fusion bolts when it comes to bosses and one on one fights.

5. Puppetery - I've had a character that's started out using puppets. It's powerful, but it takes up way too much AP to rank up. I'll consider it later, but for now, I'd rather avoid this.

6. Gunslinger - More of a late-game skill set. Saving this for later.

7. Archery - ...no, just no. I have not had the best of experiences with this skillset (too many times where I've missed at 90%) and I'd prefer to avoid this like the plague.

I mainly just want to use magic to deal my main damage and use other skillsets to keep my options open. Any advice on what I should do?

As first advice, unless you plan on doing fighter along with magic, don't rank thunder first. I'd say thunder is the worst int magic of the three.

Also, don't worry aout mana deflector, that should be the least of the concern.

1. Alch is nice since it will increase your mana pool and has great utility, but alch itself needs you to rank other skillsets to meet its full potential. Enchanting isn't big of an issue, as mages don't benefit heavily from enchants than other classes. Yes, you can use guard cylinder along with wands, but I wouldn't, unless you're raincasting. It's better to dual wield the cylinders in general. If you go Alch, rank the attack skills first, as mastery doesn't affect it as much (it's your stats).

2. You have a nice way of buffing partymates with battlefield overture (if buffs your firebolt too), as well as lullaby for defensive options. If you go this route, you won't really need to sing, as you can have your magic weapon on one slot, and the instrument on the other.

3. If you want flat out damage path, this is probably the best. Reason? Melee gets a pretty fast growth first, and doesn't grow too slow later on either. You'll also be ready for guns, which requires you have high str and int. Guns, if you have the right equip and right stats, will help you sweep through the content.

4. It's an alright path as many magic skills give beneficial stats to fighter, but not recommended. You have great 1v1 damage, but poor escape plan. Also, don't expect mana knuckles to save your life. You can shockwave once, then wait for long cd, that's about it. If you really want to mage/fighter, don't use mana knuckles, as it will just decrease damage in both. You're better off using a magic weapon in a weapon slot and real knuckles on the other.

5. This is the skillset I'd advise you against. You have nothing ranked that will help with puppetry remotely... This is a skillset where melee/range hybrids go into, not mages.

6. Already stated in the melee section.

7. To be honest, this is another skillset I'd suggest. You had bad time with it? Well, I did too, deal with it. It's your job to learn about what to do when you miss at 90%, and there are many things you can do. Archery gives you immense utility, and a powerful late game. This is also nice for solonogi, as when you get enough int, matk, and dex all together, you can just IS a room, crash shot, then profit.

I'd say the best option is melee, for the fast growth, and good synergy.

Quote from elemein;1196075:

Consider the Lancer talent too.

That's melee.
elemein wrote on 2014-02-08 17:34

Quote from ironwoman;1196116:

That's melee.

I categorize it differently since the defensive skills used between any combination of swords/blunts vs lances are so different :whistle: But that's just me. It is technically melee.
ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-08 17:51

Quote from elemein;1196119:
I categorize it differently since the defensive skills used between any combination of swords/blunts vs lances are so different :whistle: But that's just me. It is technically melee.

Any end-game melee user would use lance. And all the fundamental skill, like windmill and smash, are still the key skills to lance melee.
Humans shouldn't really use anything else other than swords or lances, since they don't really benefit much from other weapons.
elemein wrote on 2014-02-08 17:55

Quote from ironwoman;1196121:
Any end-game melee user would use lance. And all the fundamental skill, like windmill and smash, are still the key skills to lance melee.
Humans shouldn't really use anything else other than swords or lances, since they don't really benefit much from other weapons.

Thought it would seem that the OP is not end-game. Though I agree with everything else, the counters are different (but that difference is negligent end-game; but thats far)
Friggerton wrote on 2014-02-08 18:19

[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]As ironwoman said you're probably better off with a real shield paired with your wand rather than a guard cylinder, unless you want to use low level alchemy utility (I would imagine wind blast and sand burst would be helpful for mob manipulation, as well as heat buster for stalling a group of mobs < even if none of these will do a lot of damage) and rank shield mastery.

Quote from ironwoman;1196116:

7. To be honest, this is another skillset I'd suggest. You had bad time with it? Well, I did too, deal with it. It's your job to learn about what to do when you miss at 90%, and there are many things you can do. Archery gives you immense utility, and a powerful late game. This is also nice for solonogi, as when you get enough int, matk, and dex all together, you can just IS a room, crash shot, then profit.

Elaboration on utility: In my opinion archery gives you the widest window of 1v1 attack opportunity in the game, because you can attack from outside of most mobs aggro range. There are many shadow missions I've done as a ranger where I was able to just patiently draw out mobs from a group (using mirage missile for extra long range or crash shot if I really could wait for the aim rate.) Even if you miss, you're a mage, so you could use bolt counter and then magnum or crash shot to give yourself some breathing room (or windblast/sandburst, as mentioned.)[/SIZE][/FONT]