Starting Lance

• gundamweed wrote on 2014-02-18 02:45

  Quote from ironwoman;1199204:

  We already went over this long time ago. Because of less piercing, lion claw loses out by a noticeable margin. You started a thread asking why other lances are preferred compared to other lances, and I answered with calculated results. Either you have ridiculously high damage would good gears, or those demonic users don't do damage.

  
  
  No, I totally get you and I completely agree those three you listed are in fact superior. In fact, a large part of the reason why I out damage these demonic lance users is because 90% of the time it's a human-- and I'm a giant. Though I did compare myself with another giant demonic lance user, a friend of mine who is a peer in damage, and I did fall behind, but not by much more like 2k or so damage in smashes. I simply say that we shouldn't rule out the lion lance as viable just because it doesn't have as much pierce. I might switch over eventually, until I start to feel I'm really lagging behind in damage compared to these knight/demonic lance users, but as of now I'm just not feeling it, and I'm pretty far in. That's all I'm saying.
  
  on a side note, I love how great your memory is and I'm flattered you indirectly called me strong.
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-18 03:15

  Quote from gundamweed;1199213:

  No, I totally get you and I completely agree those three you listed are in fact superior. In fact, a large part of the reason why I out damage these demonic lance users is because 90% of the time it's a human-- and I'm a giant. Though I did compare myself with another giant demonic lance user, a friend of mine who is a peer in damage, and I did fall behind, but not by much more like 2k or so damage in smashes. I simply say that we shouldn't rule out the lion lance as viable just because it doesn't have as much pierce. I might switch over eventually, until I start to feel I'm really lagging behind in damage compared to these knight/demonic lance users, but as of now I'm just not feeling it, and I'm pretty far in. That's all I'm saying.
  
  on a side note, I love how great your memory is and I'm flattered you indirectly called me strong.

  
  
  I'm a human and use knight lance, and I outdamage a lot of Giant Lance users. And I'm obviously not the strongest human lance user either, far from it in fact.
  Lion claw isn't "unviable", but if you're going to argue that it's just as viable as the other three lances, I'd have to disagree with that.
  Granted, there was a player in KR who uses a cartel penetrating lion claw lance, and his reasoning is that 1 piercing difference isn't too much from 8 piercing. He did agree though, 2 is where you start to see bigger differences, and hence why people usually don't use lion claw lance. With right reforges and gear, you could make lion claw nearly as viable, but still not quite, and other lances would do a better job with less resources. Whether making the lion claw lance "viable" is really up to you, but I'd say it isn't.
  
  As for the damage part... if you actually hit higher, you'd have to outdamage them by more than 160, and 500 damage is easy to get with lances, especially if it's demonic. Granted, as for me, I can reach close to 700 damage with lion claw, and I have no idea if you have that sort of damage or not.
  
  Another reason I suggest OP against using lion claw as a long term weapon is because humans actually benefit more from piercing than Giants do. Giants, of course, get a lot, but they already have higher smash multiplier. Humans need piercing to fill that up, and lion claw certainly isn't the best for that. Only remote way you could get lion claw lance to be more useful is if you have cartel penetrating, which is much better put on other lances. Using it to train skills is fine, that's what I did too. You would be at a stage where piercing's less significant anyways.
• Rukuna wrote on 2014-02-18 05:02
  Ok to cap this off.
  
  Lion Claw < Knight Lance
  
  Knight Lance < Demonic?
  
  Lion claw for training, invest in knight or demonic upon completion.
  
  Correct me if I'n wrong.
• arochia246 wrote on 2014-02-18 05:15

  Quote from Rukuna;1199263:

  Ok to cap this off.
  
  Lion Claw < Knight Lance
  
  Knight Lance < Demonic?
  
  Lion claw for training, invest in knight or demonic upon completion.
  
  Correct me if I'n wrong.

  
  
  Beginner Lion Claw = Training/Affordability because the player is poor as dirt.
  Lion Claw = Higher max, less piercing. (Probably good for Bandit Hunting to be honest.)
  Knight Lance = 8 Pierce with Secret/Penetrating, affordable repairs. I would get an X-grade Lich Spike pre-enchanted one and enchant Secret or have someone smith them and enchant.
  Demonic Lance = Easier to obtain than high-grade Knight Lances + marginally better artisan. People only enchant Secret/Pene on these because wasting 50k/fail is better than wasting ~300-400k/fail.
• Rukuna wrote on 2014-02-18 05:37

  Quote from arochia246;1199265:

  Beginner Lion Claw = Training/Affordability because the player is poor as dirt.
  Lion Claw = Higher max, less piercing. (Probably good for Bandit Hunting to be honest.)
  Knight Lance = 8 Pierce with Secret/Penetrating, affordable repairs. I would get an X-grade Lich Spike pre-enchanted one and enchant Secret or have someone smith them and enchant.
  Demonic Lance = Easier to obtain than high-grade Knight Lances + marginally better artisan. People only enchant Secret/Pene on these because wasting 50k/fail is better than wasting ~300-400k/fail.

  
  Alright, that clears it up.
  Thank you everyone, very useful information
  
  Also, how hard is it to get to 300-400 dex? I'm sitting at like base 80 right now, reduced by artisan and heavy armor down to 20
  Edit: What are some life skills that are absolutely necessary once I finish close combat?
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-18 06:35

  Quote from Rukuna;1199275:

  Alright, that clears it up.
  Thank you everyone, very useful information
  
  Also, how hard is it to get to 300-400 dex? I'm sitting at like base 80 right now, reduced by artisan and heavy armor down to 20
  Edit: What are some life skills that are absolutely necessary once I finish close combat?

  
  
  Not hard at all. Get rank 1 refining, range skills and you should be sitting at that area.
  First aid is also pretty easy dex.
  
  Other life skills that are necessary for melee would be carpentry and mining. You can also do hilwen drill mining for more str. Engineering and magic craft are also good str, but they're the grindies life skills of Mabinogi. Other than these, you should focus on dex, like weaving, handicraft, etc.
  
  The downside of using demonic lance is that you can't use it efficiently enough for piercing level 9. And the repair cost is the highest of all lances, if that will prevent you from anything.
• Rukuna wrote on 2014-02-18 08:11

  Quote from ironwoman;1199291:

  Not hard at all. Get rank 1 refining, range skills and you should be sitting at that area.
  First aid is also pretty easy dex.
  
  Other life skills that are necessary for melee would be carpentry and mining. You can also do hilwen drill mining for more str. Engineering and magic craft are also good str, but they're the grindies life skills of Mabinogi. Other than these, you should focus on dex, like weaving, handicraft, etc.
  
  The downside of using demonic lance is that you can't use it efficiently enough for piercing level 9. And the repair cost is the highest of all lances, if that will prevent you from anything.

  
  Looks like I have my plan for the next few months, once I get master warrior, get r1 Mining, Refining and Carpentry for the extra str and dex.
  After that I will train ranged until I reach 300-400 dex and then I'm all set for lance :D
  Gonna take forever lmao
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-18 17:26

  Quote from Rukuna;1199329:

  Looks like I have my plan for the next few months, once I get master warrior, get r1 Mining, Refining and Carpentry for the extra str and dex.
  After that I will train ranged until I reach 300-400 dex and then I'm all set for lance :D
  Gonna take forever lmao

  
  
  It doesn't. You can also do puppetry for even more dex and str. This is probably the point where you realize how useful range will be.