Advice on Puppeteer and other talents

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Skuld wrote on 2014-02-26 00:21

Hello Senpais..

I'm in need of some advice, I'm trying to decide what talent should I go with, I'd love to be a Puppeteer since I love Pierrot marionette and the whole skill set seems fun, I've heard it can be very powerful too but I wonder if my current stats are good enough to do good damage? These are my base stats: STR 319, INT 303, DEX 369, WILL 355, LUCK 22. I'm on Fighter talent atm since my will was too low.

What about the other talents? I don't really like Gunner, I'd love to be melee but I love swords not lances and I hear people saying melee is only strong if you go with lances? I've done a little bit of magic, just for rafting purposes, what I've been doing the most is archery and I felt my damage was alright but I took a really long break from game and now that I'm back, I barely do any damage xD

Another thing I should mention is that I lag sometimes, like at MA I lag a lot and some SM's, I guess any place that has so many things running around. All answers and advice are much appreciated, thanks!
Limes wrote on 2014-02-26 00:49

I'd say you're solid enough to start at least working on puppeteer. Just know that your puppetry skills aren't going to add as much to the stats that matter to that skill tree as some of your other skills. You may as well at least start ranking the skills though, they're incredibly handy. Just try to dig around for the skills that you haven't finished that add the most dexterity and/or strength per AP, and keep those skills in mind as you work on your puppetry.
Renzato wrote on 2014-02-26 00:56

I'm not sure what your total level is, but as long as you rank some of the more important marionette skills (Act 7, Control, the Marionettes, etc) you should be pretty set with content that's around your level. Some of those skills are pretty powerful just from the innate multipliers so I wouldn't worry too much.

In the end, pursue what you enjoy most. You'll get to a level where it'll shred things like paper eventually. Building on Limes' advice, keep an eye on skills that add STR/DEX for the least AP required. You mentioned that you were interested in melee combat - and no that doesn't necessarily mean you need to get into lances. They may be the 'best', but don't let anyone convince you that other melee weapons are "weak."

Edit: However I will recommend to you to go into melee, get those str giving skills out of the way, and do some of those life skills that give strength. Mining is pretty easy for 25. Carpentry gives 42 if you're willing to suffer through some of the grindier ranks. But obviously you don't necessarily need to rush through it. Dual-wielding will get you through most content while you gain AP to rank up your puppet skills.
ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-26 02:39

My view is that you start puppetry when you have both str and dex at 400. And that is not the case for you.
You can still start if you want, it's all your choice, all I'm saying is that I think you're not prepared enough.

Granted, I started puppetry at much higher stat.
Skuld wrote on 2014-02-26 22:43

Thanks senpais! I really appreciate all your helpful advice, I'll work more on building up my STR and DEX more then, I forgot to mention I had trained some of my puppeteer skills before, and most of my combat tab is already done.. here's a pic of my combat skills that are left to rank and my life skills

I never ranked charged cause I don't use shields and it didn't give that much STR I think, but maybe I should rank it now

Edit: Didn't let me post the pic or link but my combat skills I have left to rank are:

Defense r9
Counter rF
Charge rF
Evasion rF
Axe Mastery rF
Lance Counter novice

I also did some Carpentry and managed to reach r8
ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-26 22:53

Quote from Skuld;1202256:
Thanks senpais! I really appreciate all your helpful advice, I'll work more on building up my STR and DEX more then, I forgot to mention I had trained some of my puppeteer skills before, and most of my combat tab is already done.. here's a pic of my combat skills that are left to rank and my life skills

I never ranked charged cause I don't use shields and it didn't give that much STR I think, but maybe I should rank it now

Edit: Didn't let me post the pic or link but my combat skills I have left to rank are:

Defense r9
Counter rF
Charge rF
Evasion rF
Axe Mastery rF
Lance Counter novice

I also did some Carpentry and managed to reach r8

Yeah, finish those skills.

You could probably make use of this. Don't mind the title, just think of it as "Puppet for dummies". The guide states that you should have 3 master combat talents, and I agree. And they should be related to str or dex, meaning master warrior, knight, and archer. Looking at your skills ranked, I'd assume you don't have any of these mastered.

That being said, work more on your str+dex skills.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-02-27 07:35

This guide here is a little more cleaner and a bit more detailed than the one ironwoman posted.

I'd pretty much go with what ironwoman said: get your stats up. "Puppetry is strong but only if you have the stats to back it up".
Also, its true that Charge doesn't give a lot of strength, but it does give a lot of stamina, which Puppetry eats a lot. Then again you can counter that by having Enduring Melody and Fantastic Chorus ranked.

If you're going to try to invest in puppetry though, this is my advice for skill progression:
1. Rank Control Marionette, Colossus Marionette, and Pierrot Marionette passively. Their training is grindy, moreso than the other skills. These three are vital to strengthening your marionette, and you WILL use both marionettes because you will learn to cycle between the two in combat.
2. Act 7: Climactic Crash is your highest priority. Its the skillset's bread n' butter as it can deal roughly 1650% damage at rank 1.
3. Act 6: Crisis and Act 4: Rising Action. Crisis pulls your enemies into one spot for Climactic Crash and Rising Actions adds onto damage.
4. Act 2: Threshold Cutter and Act 1: Inciting Incident. They're both 1:1 filler skills but are otherwise still useful. Threshold Cutter does 700% onto a target while Inciting Incident slingshots your marionette across the room.
5. Wire Pull and Puppet's Snare. These are 1:1 and they're not very strong, nor do they get much stronger at rank 1. However, they're still very useful supports, especially for Puppet's Snare vs Blinkers.
6. Act 9: Invigorating Encore. The last and most terribad skill of the entire skillset, it gives the marionette an incredibly small boost to damage and a shit AI. I actually did take the liberty to rank 1 and master it, but I never ever used it EVER AGAIN.
frncsjhnhawaii wrote on 2014-02-27 07:48

With your stats, you should be able to kill off most Advanced Shadow Mission mobs with a single Crisis > Rising Action > Windmill combo while your puppetry skills are at the basic levels. That whole thing about starting skill sets when you have the "right" stats for it is bs.
Yuuki Asuna wrote on 2014-02-27 15:02

I say you're ready but that's my own opinion of course :D

Just make sure you have enough AP to get Acts 6 & 7 to r1 immediately because the cast time reduction is super noticeable if you combo the two skills.
Osu wrote on 2014-02-27 17:53

Quote from Renzato;1201978:
I'm not sure what your total level is, but as long as you rank some of the more important marionette skills (Act 7, Control, the Marionettes, etc) you should be pretty set with content that's around your level. Some of those skills are pretty powerful just from the innate multipliers so I wouldn't worry too much.

I'll add on to this and remind everyone that while the strength and dexterity to back up puppetry is a good idea to get, and of course there are those skills(like Windmill and Refining) that you need to rank up pretty much first, puppetry's masteries make it a very viable build to even start out with as long as you get them up quick.. With the multipliers and those base stats from the masteries alone you can easily crit for 5k or so. Strength and dexterity are only really necessary to start hitting you know, endgame damage with it and etc. I'd say it's easy to dive into at any given point because of all of this, really. You've also got a good 600+ strong on both stats combined so I'd see no issues.
ironwoman does also cite the use of having master in warrior, knight, and archer.. I would recommend these as well, but they don't have to come first of course. :P

Quote from Renzato;1201978:
In the end, pursue what you enjoy most. You'll get to a level where it'll shred things like paper eventually. Building on Limes' advice, keep an eye on skills that add STR/DEX for the least AP required. You mentioned that you were interested in melee combat - and no that doesn't necessarily mean you need to get into lances. They may be the 'best', but don't let anyone convince you that other melee weapons are "weak."

I.. ehh, I agree with everything in the start of this, but on the swords vs. lances issue.. I can imagine your main issue with lances is your previously mentioned lag, and that can screw with things quite a bit when using one.
I wanna throw out though that the comparisons make sense, sadly.. I'm actually a sword fanatic myself, but I caved and use lances now as well.. It's just because the vast majority of your enemies are gonna be reduced to no defenses whatsoever when you've got a lance with 8 or more pierce. Swords.. if only they had some piercing enchants or something.. they can only really do sub-par damage in comparison in the higher difficulties because of protection and etc. Losing about 30% of your damage or so most of the time is a really hit to your damage.. the only way to circumvent really is with reforges, but even then when you're dual wielding that process itself just becomes more difficult.. I kinda think one day I may make an elemental reforged two-hander to get back to my one true love. xD But for now~ when you're just going with base stats and everything, it's lances all the way.. and really with reforges too~ but ya know.

Quote from Renzato;1201978:
However I will recommend to you to go into melee, get those str giving skills out of the way, and do some of those life skills that give strength. Mining is pretty easy for 25. Carpentry gives 42 if you're willing to suffer through some of the grindier ranks. But obviously you don't necessarily need to rush through it. Dual-wielding will get you through most content while you gain AP to rank up your puppet skills.

Despite the negativity on swords though, this is absolutely true. They're also more versatile and likely much more kind for when you lag. xD; I'd say not to get down on them despite all the facts against them.. they should eventually realize they need an overhaul. I hold out hope for that day. ;w; Also keep in mind when you get to the stat raising, especially with lag, you'll wanna tap out the strength before the dexterity~ little extra defense never hurts. xP
Skuld wrote on 2014-03-02 20:57

Thanks a lot senpais~ For the guides and all the helpful advise, I already had master for archer, I'm just missing the Grandmaster there, and these day I've been working a little on lance counter and now I'm master knight, so I'll work on my close combat skills that are left to rank now and train my puppeteer skills too, must look for a good place to train those though
Kouki wrote on 2014-03-02 23:12

I think when people say "only lances are strong", they are talking end-game perfectionist/elitist talk. xD You can use dual-swords and still be really strong(I find the N+1 with dual swords is the funnest/easiest to do). After all, Mabinogi is a game that relies on strategy and not just stats, and you shouldn't have to have perfect stats to reach your goals, unless your goal is to be perfect with the best stats possible... XD;
ironwoman wrote on 2014-03-03 02:33

Quote from Fran;1203492:
I think when people say "only lances are strong", they are talking end-game perfectionist/elitist talk. xD You can use dual-swords and still be really strong(I find the N+1 with dual swords is the funnest/easiest to do). After all, Mabinogi is a game that relies on strategy and not just stats, and you shouldn't have to have perfect stats to reach your goals, unless your goal is to be perfect with the best stats possible... XD;

I'm gonna have to intervene and give some of my thoughts here.
I, for one, do not think only lances are strong. But if you're going to argue that there are stronger weapons than lance in melee, I'm gonna have to disagree with that (not saying you're arguing this).
Yes, the OP can use dual-wield. But is it most likely the most efficient weapon? No. Your term "really strong" is really subjective... it could be strong to you, but weak to us. Things like N+1 isn't as big anymore as current meta is to do bigger damage with skills. Hence the focus on max damage. And the mentioning of lances. You don't need to be anywhere near end-game to see the effectiveness of lances.
Mabinogi used to be a game where it'd involve tons of strategies. That time is long gone. Now you can just solo missions with almost instant wave clear, not much strategy involved there. Mabinogi isn't about being perfect, but the thing is, you don't have to have perfect stats to solo missions easily. Like for me, I barely have 300 will and horribad int but solo every hm mission without deaths, and almost all elites (except shadow wizard and sulfur spider)