Multiple element reforge.

• nana wrote on 2014-03-05 12:14
  some say they stack all the way up to 6/6/6, some say they won't stack beyond 99.9%.
  
  so i been discussing this with friend of mine a while ago.
  My stance was that they will not stack beyond 99.9%.
  Why? simply because one member on nation kept saying it won't stack and s/he seems so confident on what s/he says.( even says s/he can show URL to prove his point iirc...)
  
  and friend of mine gave me this link when we're discussing about this topic.
  
  http://www.mabinogi.pe.kr/bbs/zboard.php?id=report&page=2&sn1=&divpage=4&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=27895
  
  basically pages on the link above says the following(I may be wrong if google chrome fucks up the translation..):
  1)triple ele does stack(although it was 2/3/4)
  2)even 6/6 does stack, resulting 111.11% more damage upon usage.
  
  
  My concern with the link above is that I do not see any pic posted with damage and numbers, but just states that 6/6 ele works.
  
  Not that I don't trust nation-er nor my friend, I just want to clarify this matter.
  Do they stack beyond 6/5(99.99%) or no.
  Either case, it'd be nice if one could provide enough info(ideally with pic showing damage/ref/stat).
  
  
  edit:if mod can change topic name to Multiple elemental reforge, it'd be nice...orz
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-03-05 13:51
  The post doesn't have much credential, as the OP doesn't have data to back it up, only reforged weapons.
• nana wrote on 2014-03-05 14:21

  Quote from ironwoman;1204086:

  The post doesn't have much credential, as the OP doesn't have data to back it up, only reforged weapons.

  
  
  Nationer here does the same thing for this matter.
  says ele reforge won't stack beyond 99.9% without any evidences.
  
  How about you providing us some real info rather than just pointing out what OP is missing?(if and only if you knew)
  
  I honestly don't care if it does or doesn't stack, all i want to know is which.
• Snowie Stormflower wrote on 2014-03-05 15:26

  Quote from nana;1204074:

  edit:if mod can change topic name to Multiple elemental reforge, it'd be nice...orz

  
  
  I did that for now but you can could also change it yourself using Edit Post > Go Advanced.
• arochia246 wrote on 2014-03-05 15:40
  I remember playing with Regalius back when dual warhammers were still viable for giants.
  He had a 2/2/2 elemental warhammer, but I don't remember his char screen max or anything.
  
  I have a 6/3 ele lance that I can do damage testing with, if you want the videos.
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-03-05 16:18
  Triple ele does stack, that's been known for a long time. The condition being that it's still under the cap.
  There was a link where some guys did testing on this issue earlier... I'm gonna post that later.
  
  Edit: Alright, came back home, and finally found some links to explain why the reforge is capped at 99.99% damage increase.
  
  Long post about elemental reforges.
  Shorter, and older post, but still relevant.
  
  The first link confirms that the damage is indeed capped at 100% (or 99.99%, whatever you like to call it).
  The second link is more important imo. It tells us [UB]why[/UB] we may see a damage increase of more than 100%.
  The second link states a problem where when reforges are put together with elemental enchants, unless the enemy is the same element as the reforges/enchants, it treats enemy as a different element, and [UB]this includes neutral enemies.[/UB] In this example, the damage increase should be character damage*(.9999(max enchant modifier)+.5555(ele 6)), which is 1.5555 for convenience sake (the difference is minimal). However, when actually tested out, the 11.11% extra damage took place because of the elemental enchants, resulting in 166.66% damage. Meaning that elemental reforge and enchants stack on neutral mobs.
  
  The principle is that any sort of elemental modifier of same sort (enchant, reforge) cannot result in more than 100% damage increase by itself (but they enchants and reforge can still stack). Hence the 100% limit on reforge as well.
  
  That being said, there is something that has to be taken into consideration for your original link. Was the OP wearing completely neutral gear? Was it tested on a completely neutral mob? If so, 211.11% is more than a plausible number.
  
  [SPOILER="tl;dr"]TL;DR 211.11% is possible, but not with 6/6 ele alone. There are more factors than that. Triple ele does stack, that's been known for long time, it's the dumbasses spreading the stupid rumor it doesn't stack. It just doesn't stack beyond 99.99% damage increase.[/SPOILER]
  
  Hope this clears everything up.
• nana wrote on 2014-03-06 01:32

  Quote from Snowie Stormflower;1204117:

  I did that for now but you can could also change it yourself using Edit Post > Go Advanced.

  
  thanks didnt realize theres Go Advanced >.>
  
  
  
  

  Quote from arochia246;1204123:

  I remember playing with Regalius back when dual warhammers were still viable for giants.
  He had a 2/2/2 elemental warhammer, but I don't remember his char screen max or anything.
  
  I have a 6/3 ele lance that I can do damage testing with, if you want the videos.

  
  
  my concern was ele ref higher than6/5 wouldstack or not~ i do appreciate your offer tho
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1204137:

  
  Hope this clears everything up.

  
  
  it kinda did. except i wanted to see pic rather than the words(both ur link and my link shows pic of weapon only). but they still done good works. ima go test a few when im free~
  for the time being, since both side cannot fully give enough evidences, ill just stay neutral...perhaps a little towards 99.99%side~ (please note that im not trying to be mean or anything db, but rather wanted to be safe/100% sure of its matter ok?)
• arochia246 wrote on 2014-03-06 02:48
  I think the only real issue with testing this is obtaining an item with the reforge...
• nana wrote on 2014-03-06 13:58
  scratch everything i said. was about to get tricked by massive korean letters. >.>
  
  i will update this once friend of mine finishes organizing info. and ofc once im awake.
  
  goes to bed...
• nana wrote on 2014-03-07 03:32

  The first link confirms that the damage is indeed capped at 100% (or 99.99%, whatever you like to call it).

  
  Nope this is just a assumption made by a single Korean player and shows nothing but what he thinks to be true.
  
  

  The second link is more important imo. It tells us why we may see a damage increase of more than 100%.
  The second link states a problem where when reforges are put together with elemental enchants, unless the enemy is the same element as the reforges/enchants, it treats enemy as a different element, and this includes neutral enemies. In this example, the damage increase should be character damage*(.9999(max enchant modifier)+.5555(ele 6)), which is 1.5555 for convenience sake (the difference is minimal). However, when actually tested out, the 11.11% extra damage took place because of the elemental enchants, resulting in 166.66% damage. Meaning that elemental reforge and enchants stack on neutral mobs.

  
  Nope. While this is true to some extent, Elemental Enchant does not work when opposing against Neutral Mobs.
  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/NvkZdPR.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/jQ7Gbgo.jpg]

  
  My bow and the damage shown against 0/0 neutral mob.
  509(my max)*5(mag modifier)*1.55...(ele6 modifier)=3958.88...
  now to test this with all my gear enchanted with lightning enchant
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/hbF2OuQ.jpg]

  
  Same result. Showing element enchant not working on neutral mobs~
  
  However, if it were enemy with weakness element (eg. Fire -> Ice)
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/dzpeN7D.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/Q5d1uCa.jpg]

  
  damage is indeed increased by a ton. Resulting in a damage which Fire 3 HLB can't potentially reach at its normal rate.
  
  
  
  

  The principle is that any sort of elemental modifier of same sort (enchant, reforge) cannot result in more than 100% damage increase by itself (but they enchants and reforge can still stack). Hence the 100% limit on reforge as well.

  
  no. Just like the rumor one Korean player started out in regards to triple ele not stacking properly, your statement has no evidences.
  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/kFsaVlA.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/s4rX4QE.jpg]

  
  I was very fortunate that I find a player with 6/6 ele(additional 111.11% damage)
  On a picture shows his max damage and his output.
  His max damage is 647, Elemental Reforges are Lightning 6 and Ice 6 and then he's using normal range. (with normal arrow obviously)
  So a formula is as follows
  HighestDamage =647*(1+(6-1+6-1)*1/9)
  =647*2.11...
  =1365.88...
  
  Showing even a multiple ele does stack beyond its "SAID CAP" and increased its damage by 111.11% as intended.
  
  Lastly, I really appreciate しゃちょ(Syacho) and ルーフィール(LuFeel) of Ruari from JP Mabi for helping me out do this experiment.
  Thank you Syacho for letting us introduce you and your bow to finish this experiment
  and
  Thank you LuFeel for helping me contact Syacho in the first place!
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-03-07 07:38
  Dang, and to think I rerolled my 6/4/5 bow to try to get effective range.