Car Companies Petition Government To Remove Mirrors From Cars

• Yoorah wrote on 2014-04-07 04:26

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1213313:

  The sales speak for themselves buddy.

  
  By this standard, GM, which make some of the shittiest cars ever, would actually be some of the best cars ever.. haha. People are often not very good at choosing the technically superior product; they go by brand image and things like that. BMW really isn't what they used to be, though I still like their looks.
  Tesla sells their cars as quickly as they can make them. They actually have waiting lists, though they're not as long as they used to be, thanks to their expanded manufacturing capacity.
  
  

  Quote from Chockeh;1213317:

  Model S is so damn sexy.

  
  Yeah, no kidding.
  

  [Image: http://jacobfoxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tesla-model-s.jpg]

  
  *_*...
  
  It's pretty amazing how they combined amazing looks, performance and safety into this car. This car actually broke the crash-testing equipment during a test... lmao. Then some idiots started drama about the potential danger of a fire in the battery pack in case the car runs over a large, hard object on the road. Tesla's response was to install titanium underbody armour:
  

  [Image: http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/underbody-shield-paving-stone-lq.gif]

  
  

  [Image: http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/underbody-shield-alternator-lq.gif]

  
  Holy shit. (All while Tesla already has a much lower chance of catching fire than a gasoline powered car, but people overreacted because they're stupid, so the guy put their fears to rest with this.)
  
  But I guess you should expect no less from someone who can build space ships.
  It's really too bad that I don't need a car thanks to living in the city. Plus, I couldn't afford one very easily at this point, anyway. D:
  
  

  Quote from Friggerton;1213332:

  I'm surprised they don't just try to make more "stylish and aerodynamic" housings for the mirrors.

  
  They've been trying, but there's only so much you can do due to the fact that the back of the mirror still has to be flat. This kills the drag coefficient, no matter what you do with the rest of the housing.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-04-07 04:57
  My point is BMW absolutely dominates almost every segment it competes in, that speaks for itself. Before buying my 2010 3 series (just so you know that I'm talking about modern BMWs and not fanboying over e30s), I made sure to test drive the Mercedes C-Class and Audi S4, I even tested a caddy (it really sucked ass) and some Japanese luxury cars (lexus and infinity). Each company has things it does best, but BMW does the most things right, which is why it sells the most. Also you can't really compare an electrical motor to an engine when it comes to performance, but if you want to the m6 goes from 0-60 in 3.6 seconds while the model S goes from 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
  
  I'll give you one thing though, the safety features in Teslas are swaggin.
  
  Anyway that's just my personal insight on it, probably won't change your mind about anything, and you won't really change my mind on anything either so we may as well agree to disagree.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-04-07 07:26

  Quote from Yoorah;1213335:

  
  

  [Image: http://jacobfoxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tesla-model-s.jpg]

  
  
  Looks exactly like pretty much every other car that has come out in the past 10 years.
• Chockeh wrote on 2014-04-07 07:52

  Quote from Yoorah;1213335:

  
  tesla stuff
  

  
  
  My infatuation with the brand is that it looks so goddamn futuristic. As a future engineer (hopefully), I feel like this car represents technology at its finest.
• Osayidan wrote on 2014-04-07 11:32

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1213342:

  Also you can't really compare an electrical motor to an engine when it comes to performance, but if you want to the m6 goes from 0-60 in 3.6 seconds while the model S goes from 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
  

  
  
  I don't think people buying a tesla are in it for the street racing. That 0.3 seconds will go largely unnoticed.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-04-07 13:09

  Quote from Osayidan;1213385:

  I don't think people buying a tesla are in it for the street racing. That 0.3 seconds will go largely unnoticed.

  
  
  Of course not, but the argument was brought up that Tesla has better performance than BMW. Obviously speed isn't everything but everyone knows BMW still provides the most solid rear wheel drive vehicles on the market. The engines are flawless in power delivery while the chassis still rivals that of sports cars at an affordable price (compared to sports cars of course). There are still no cars within it's segment that can compare to the overall performance of an ///M BMW (their sporty variant), only thing coming close is AMG and that's Mercedes not Tesla.
  
  
  We will have to see until the i8 (yes, I realize it is a hybrid vehicle but it's the closest thing to compare to something Tesla sells) is widely available on the market to see how it will compete against Tesla. I already know it will be tough considering Californians loyalty to the Tesla brand (and that seems to be where electrical cars are booming right now) but there is an untapped electrical car market in most of North America (or at least most of Canada) and in my opinion if anyone will be able to make electrical cars mainstream it will be BMW.
  
  

  [Image: http://www.autoweek.com/galleryimage/CW/20130910/CARNEWS/910009995/PH/0/2/BMW-i8-Frankfurt-motor-debut-front-3-4.jpg]

  
  
  Hot.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-04-07 13:22
  [Image: http://carmecrazy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/a-new-delorean-dmc-12-re-creation-from-the-texas-based-successor_100201756_m.jpg]

  
  Hot.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2014-04-07 15:10

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1213256:

  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/7YFZF.png]

  
  
  The camera is located around the same area as the radio in a car, so it forces you to take your eyes even further off the road than the mirrors do, especially if your vision isn't the best and you have to lean in and squint at it. That's why it's only been used as a back-up camera until now, because it's not safe at all to do while driving.

  
  
  That's a problem then. In order for that to be even remotely safe it needs to be on the dashboard.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-04-07 22:41

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1213256:

  [Image: http://puu.sh/7YFZF.png]

  
  
  The camera is located around the same area as the radio in a car, so it forces you to take your eyes even further off the road than the mirrors do, especially if your vision isn't the best and you have to lean in and squint at it. That's why it's only been used as a back-up camera until now, because it's not safe at all to do while driving.

  
  
  I can't help but laugh at how utterly ridiculous that looks...
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-04-09 01:43

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1213342:

  My point is BMW absolutely dominates almost every segment it competes in, that speaks for itself. Before buying my 2010 3 series (just so you know that I'm talking about modern BMWs and not fanboying over e30s), I made sure to test drive the Mercedes C-Class and Audi S4, I even tested a caddy (it really sucked ass) and some Japanese luxury cars (lexus and infinity). Each company has things it does best, but BMW does the most things right, which is why it sells the most. Also you can't really compare an electrical motor to an engine when it comes to performance, but if you want to the m6 goes from 0-60 in 3.6 seconds while the model S goes from 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
  
  I'll give you one thing though, the safety features in Teslas are swaggin.
  
  Anyway that's just my personal insight on it, probably won't change your mind about anything, and you won't really change my mind on anything either so we may as well agree to disagree.

  
  Apologies for the blunt comment--wasn't aware that you were personally invested in this topic. :P That said, BMW doesn't dominate like they used to. Not in sales, especially; they've lost ground to Mercedes... but again, I don't think sales numbers are a good indicator, anyway. Don't get me wrong; I love BMWs, the look especially (James Bond approved), but they've been getting consistently worse in reliability (in part due to increasing complexity) and this is very disappointing. Here's some ratings for the 2012 3 Series:
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/Ajv4mcd.png]

  
  The downward trend is well known, and I don't think it's acceptable for a luxury brand with the heritage that BMW has. Many people are willing to make this tradeoff for the driving performance that these cars offer, though I don't agree with this. Particularly when an electric car can give you superior performance without all the things that can go wrong with a traditional powertrain. Electric cars need virtually zero maintenance, too.
  
  As far as performance goes, the M6 is a beast built for the track (and costs $110,000 USD), but even then it only has a slight advantage in acceleration. The Tesla, on the other hand, has advantages that the M6 cannot compete with as a traditional car, main ones being the extremely low centre of gravity:
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/We7kW1u.jpg]

  
  ...most of the car's mass is essentially within its underbody. Plus, they don't have a heavy engine weighing down the front of the car; they can distribute the weight optimally throughout the car. The only gasoline powered cars that can compete with this are the central midship types, and those tend to be supercars in a tier of their own. Then there's the fact that an electric motor can adjust to commands from a computerized traction control system much more precisely that a gasoline powered car can.
  
  

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1213391:

  We will have to see until the i8 (yes, I realize it is a hybrid vehicle but it's the closest thing to compare to something Tesla sells) is widely available on the market to see how it will compete against Tesla. I already know it will be tough considering Californians loyalty to the Tesla brand (and that seems to be where electrical cars are booming right now) but there is an untapped electrical car market in most of North America (or at least most of Canada) and in my opinion if anyone will be able to make electrical cars mainstream it will be BMW.
  
  

  [Image: http://www.autoweek.com/galleryimage/CW/20130910/CARNEWS/910009995/PH/0/2/BMW-i8-Frankfurt-motor-debut-front-3-4.jpg]

  
  
  Hot.

  
  The i8 is cool and I look forward to see how well it'll do on the market. That said, BMW, based on their track record so far, definitely won't be the company to make electrics mainstream. This is the new electric car they have just released:
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/uq3NJRG.jpg]

  
  It looks outright horrible and is overpriced: $42K USD vs $29K for the Leaf. All while it has a smaller battery than the Nissan Leaf: 18.8 kWh vs 24 kWh for the Leaf. It has inferior safety ratings, too... worse than many other electrics on the market. So for now, the i3 is an all-round failure, IMO.
  
  The electric Mercedes SLS AMG you briefly brought up is an engineering marvel that I've read about in an IEEE publication a year or two ago. The car is really in a class of its own and is more of a showcase of what can be done with an electric powertrain. The thing has 4 powerful electric motors, one for each wheel. Thanks to this, it can precisely apply torque vectoring independently for each wheel. :0
  
  [video=youtube;IElqf-FCMs8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IElqf-FCMs8[/video]
  One has to wonder about the improvements that could be had over this once battery technology improves and they can reduce weight thanks to that.
• Osayidan wrote on 2014-04-09 02:21
  A lot of news this past week of batteried charging in seconds for mobile devices. Need this for cars (or everything really). Hope the technology goes all the way.
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-04-09 02:56
  The biggest issue with charging car batteries fast is that your house will need to have good enough wiring to handle the current. Even the Leaf, which has a comparatively small battery, is still 24kWh worth of capacity. It can power your home.
  
  A friend of mine owns a Leaf (got to ride in it, gotta say it seriously exceeded my expectations) and he had to upgrade the wiring in his garage so he could charge it with the high capacity charger or whatever.
  
  Tesla has deployed "Supercharger" stations along some popular highways, which obviously don't have this limitation; they can charge Tesla's massive batteries from 0-50% in just 20 mins, though charging gets slower the fuller the battery is, as you might know.
  http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
  Check out their build-out plans with that slider. Damn.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-04-09 04:59

  Quote from Yoorah;1213686:

  Apologies for the blunt comment--wasn't aware that you were personally invested in this topic.

  
  
  Oh much more than that.
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/7n3rn.jpg]
• TLCBonaparte wrote on 2014-04-10 14:55
  I don't see what's the problem, once it's on the retail market, people should be able to decide if they want this feature over mirror, it's not like this is forced onto them... We have the tech to provide alternative to mirror, that means current law is outdated. It should be changed to accommodate the new options.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-04-10 16:07

  Quote from Yoorah;1213686:

  That said, BMW doesn't dominate like they used to. Not in sales, especially; they've lost ground to Mercedes... but again, I don't think sales numbers are a good indicator, anyway.
  

  
  
  You're right, they lost ground to Mercedes by 3,254 cars sold in 2013 but this is taking into the fact that Mercedes released the CLA while BMW had its CLA competitor set to release in 2014 (the 2 series). As of 2014, BMW is dominating in sales completely for the first quarter (428,259 units sold), while Audi (412,850 units sold) is a close second and Mercedes is doing horribly (374,276 units sold).
  
  

  Quote from Yoorah;1213686:

  Here's some ratings for the 2012 3 Series:
  
  The downward trend is well known, and I don't think it's acceptable for a luxury brand with the heritage that BMW has. Many people are willing to make this tradeoff for the driving performance that these cars offer, though I don't agree with this. Particularly when an electric car can give you superior performance without all the things that can go wrong with a traditional powertrain. Electric cars need virtually zero maintenance, too.
  

  
  
  Googling 2012 3 series reviews this is what I found:
  
  http://www.thecarconnection.com/overview/bmw_3-series_2012
  http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/2012/
  http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/BMW_3-Series/2012/
  http://www.themotorreport.com.au/53891/2012-bmw-328i-luxury-review
  http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/3-series
  
  4 pages of google and I can't find the ratings you showed, source would be great. Until you can give a source to your ratings as far as I can see there is not a single bad review for the 2012 3-series to back up your claim of diminishing quality in BMWs. It seems your perception of BMWs bad quality comes from the defects in newly introduced models (which are always fixed one or two years after release), that said Tesla has had way worse things go wrong with its cars... From the 3 reported spontaneous combustion of the car, to the dozens of reports of the car randomly stopping on the road or not even being able to start up in the first place, to the horrible battery drainage issue that was only just fixed a few months ago... they're really not as perfect as you seem to think they are.
  
  

  Quote from Yoorah;1213686:

  As far as performance goes, the M6 is a beast built for the track (and costs $110,000 USD), but even then it only has a slight advantage in acceleration. The Tesla, on the other hand, has advantages that the M6 cannot compete with as a traditional car, main ones being the extremely low centre of gravity:
  
  ...most of the car's mass is essentially within its underbody. Plus, they don't have a heavy engine weighing down the front of the car; they can distribute the weight optimally throughout the car. The only gasoline powered cars that can compete with this are the central midship types, and those tend to be supercars in a tier of their own. Then there's the fact that an electric motor can adjust to commands from a computerized traction control system much more precisely that a gasoline powered car can.
  

  
  
  I'm actually curious now to compare the two cars center of gravity, considering the thing that makes ///M cars so great is that when designing the cars they put so much emphasis in flawless handling that low center of gravity is a huge priority. Also although it's true that the Tesla can optimally distribute mass throughout the car, it weighs 4647 pounds while producing 416bhp and 443 pound feet of torque. The m6 weighs 4244 pounds while producing 560bhp and 500 pound feet of torque but is in the FR layour (which isn't necessarily bad, but it's not as good as complete control over weight distribution) . The point being, although Tesla has greater control of mass and an arguably better traction control system (not denying or agreeing with this one since I don't know enough about it), it still does not out perform BMWs. I'm not saying this will never change, but as of now BMW still beats Tesla in terms of performance, as you said, the m6 is built for the track.
  
  
  As for the other stuff, I also think the i3 is dumb as fuck... as for AMG I wasn't necessarily referring to the electric drive SLS but yeah it seems pretty cool. My dad has the normal one and its really fun to drive so I wonder how that one holds up to the traditional engine one.