Deadly Florida Jail Explosion

• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-05-02 20:33
  >Criticizing someone for making assumptions by making assumptions about them.
  
  The hypocrisy. It hurts.
  
  How about this. I will feel sorry for anyone hurt who was innocent, committed an infraction(ie speeding ticket), or committed a non-violent misdemeanor(ie vandalism) and guards. Those who committed violent misdemeanors, felonies, or didn't pay their child support get no sympathy.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2014-05-02 20:59
  >hypocrisy
  
  You made a blanket statement derived from opinions based on a lack of knowledge over the topic. You were either ignorant and wrong, or purposely wrong out of an attempt at being edgy.
  
  I can't "assume" any other possible explanation for your ludicrous attempts to belittle anyone who was in that jail. Can't believe how much backpeddling you had to do throughout this thread to try to not look like a total ass after the first statement.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-05-02 21:02

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218433:

  More Assumptions

  
  
  Stahp. This is a mature discussion, not BR.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2014-05-02 21:04

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1218435:

  Stahp. This is a mature discussion, not BR.

  
  
  Then elaborate, PLEASE.
  
  How is this anything BUT one of those two things?
  
  

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1218220:

  I was going to say "and nothing of value was lost"
  
  But that's not true, they lost a perfectly good prison. :cry:
  

  
  
  You're the one who wants a mature discussion and then you drop this fucking bomb on the thread, and have the gall to backpeddle your opinion every time a counterpoint rises.
  
  Fuck this. I'm so salty right now.
  
  

  [Image: http://i.minus.com/ibgNmj5VPaGKy8.gif]

  
  
  /ragequit
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-05-02 21:17

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218436:

  backpeddle your opinion every time a counterpoint rises.

  
  
  That's called "Admitting you are wrong." It's what you do when you're mature and someone brings up a good point. You should look into it.
  
  >I said nothing of value was lost
  >>Someone said it was a jail not a prison
  >>>I said ok, then I'll feel sorry for the guards and the 1-2 innocent people
  >>>>Moar words
  >>>>>Agreed to feel sorry for those that were only in there for minor crimes
  
  This is how discussion works. Without all the name calling and assuming.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2014-05-02 21:39
  I called you out because you're seriously asking for it. You keep saying you want a mature discussion but I don't know how you could look at any of your porsts that came before I interjected and say that it isn't a bucket drop of disrespect and misinformation.
  
  Stupid for... Getting caught? Really? And then they died, so they deserved it?
  
  How can you even say that? Does someone who get raped for walking home from the college library late at night stupid for having gotten raped? Does every crime deserve death, and only after you were "dumb enough to get caught"? I could put circumstance x and result y in to just about any situation anyone is in, including yourself, and just blame you for it then. People have extenuating circumstances. Morality changes over time too.
  
  You were seriously JUST in the middle of telling Hanna, in her face, that her dad was stupid and you would have no sympathy if he were dead. I'm sorry that I had to be the guy to give you the name calling first, I figured I'd do it for everyone else who is so appalled by your behavior that they're at a loss for words.
  
  Florida legal system must suck? Just because some school kids in your state smoke weed and haven't gone to jail? How can you be saying these things as anything but flebait? Its so edgy it hurts.
  
  Almost the entirety of this conversation followed the formula:
  
  "Its okay for those people to have died"
  "But what about x"
  "Except x"
  "But what about y"
  "Except y"
  "What about people with z and a"
  "Okay so except people with z and a"
  
  See how this is going? The REAL point I'm trying to make is that you can't make blanket statements. Situations and circumstances apply to everyone. When you start interviewing each and every criminal you might start understanding or justifying them even. The numbers of people who suddenly "shouldn't have died" soar.
  
  We're not gods and we're not perfect judges. You just can't say things like "this person's life has no value" when all you know about them is one clip of their lives. What reasons did they have? What did they do? What about their families? How will we look at them in the future, where laws and morality has changed and evolved?
  
  It just isn't up to us to determine the value of a life and to say the things you did in this thread greatly hurts everyone involved, family members, and objectivity in general.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-05-02 21:51

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  I called you out because you're seriously asking for it

  
  
  Because having an opinion is asking for it.
  
  Do you also think women are asking for it when they wear revealing clothing?
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  I don't know how you could look at any of your porsts that came before I interjected and say that it isn't a bucket drop of disrespect and misinformation.
  
  Stupid for... Getting caught? Really? And then they died, so they deserved it?

  
  
  Easily, because they weren't.
  
  And no. They are stupid for doing the illegal thing in the first place. Obviously there are different levels of stupid. Murdering an old lady stupid is not on the same level as piracy stupid. The reasons for being stupid do not excuse the stupidity.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  How can you even say that? Does someone who get raped for walking home from the college library late at night stupid for having gotten raped?

  
  
  That doesn't even make sense. Walking home isn't stupid. Raping people is stupid.
  
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  Does every crime deserve death

  
  
  They didn't die, they were injured. Non-lifethreatening injuries at that. Only two died, so we just have to hope the two that died committed bad crimes to justify it.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  I could put circumstance x and result y in to just about any situation anyone is in, including yourself, and just blame you for it then. People have extenuating circumstances.

  
  
  Not really.
  
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  Morality changes over time too.

  
  
  When was the last time someone got raped and beaten to death and you thought to yourself, "Yeah, that's alright." Morality doesn't change that fast, and sometimes it doesn't change at all about certain things. We're not in the future, so speculating about how people will view crimes in the future is a waste of time.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  You were seriously JUST in the middle of telling Hanna, in her face, that her dad was stupid and you would have no sympathy if he were dead.

  
  
  Wrong. The only part of her post I commented on was that the Florida legal system seems overly harsh and that weed isn't wrongfully illegal. I later stated that sympathy would be given to those who only committed infractions or nonviolent misdemeanors, which speeding tickets(what she said he was in there for) fall under.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  I'm sorry that I had to be the guy to give you the name calling first, I figured I'd do it for everyone else who is so appalled by your behavior that they're at a loss for words.

  
  
  Take the example of the Lorax, only speak for those with no tongues. If everyone is appalled everyone can say so. You don't read minds.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  Florida legal system must suck?

  
  
  Already addressed this.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  Almost the entirety of this conversation followed the formula:
  
  "Its okay for those people to have died"
  "But what about x"
  "Except x"
  "But what about y"
  "Except y"
  "What about people with z and a"
  "Okay so except people with z and a"
  
  See how this is going? The REAL point I'm trying to make is that you can't make blanket statements. Situations and circumstances apply to everyone. When you start interviewing each and every criminal you might start understanding or justifying them even. The numbers of people who suddenly "shouldn't have died" soar.

  
  
  Nope, you would have to come up with some pretty damn amazing excuse for me to get to change my mind further. Slippery slope doesn't work here. I'm not going to have sympathy for a murderer just because he was having a bad day.
  
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  We're not gods and we're not perfect judges. You just can't say things like "this person's life has no value" when all you know about them is one clip of their lives. What reasons did they have? What did they do? What about their families? How will we look at them in the future, where laws and morality has changed and evolved?

  
  
  No, we aren't gods or perfect judges, but until one gets off his ass and comes down here to start judging people, we're all we have. So we have to make those decisions, whether you like it or not. Pacifism doesn't work in the real world. What reason they had rarely ever matters, short of self defense in murder cases. Already addressed the other points.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218444:

  It just isn't up to us to determine the value of a life

  
  
  Yes, actually, it is. If some higher power exists they obviously aren't interested in the legal system, leaving us as humans to be the judges of other humans.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2014-05-02 22:36
  But that's exactly why time specific punishments exist. There are just as many people who have committed crimes and served prison time and have been rehabilitated, functioning perfectly fine in society, compared to those who return to prison.
  
  We *punish* people for crimes. We. Don't. Kill. Them. We shouldn't be celebrating death either. Even for death row, which is rather uncommon, there is a study proving one out of 25 people who were put on it are actually innocent. Such a horribly inefficient system has no place in a modern society.
  
  And this nonviolent crimes bs is just another example of human imperfection. So once again, we follow the formula of "but what about people who committed nonviolent crimes" and you go "I suppose they didn't deserve death", but we live in an overly complex world where white collar crimes can (and do) have a far more devastating effect than any sort of violent crime could ever hope to match. So maybe you need to take a step back and reflect on whether or not you should just proclaim the black and whiteness of a person's value the next time you're faced with someone's death. Or, at least be sensitive enough to make edgy jokes about it, because that could be anyone in there, and anyone's friend or family here.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2014-05-02 23:03
  And laws and morality DO change fast. Your grandparents were in the generation that put interracial married couples in jail. Your parents are in the generation where marijuana is seen as athe worst drug of all time, when actually it is one of the most harmless even compared to currently legal substances. Gay marriage is sweeping the planet in full force.
  
  People are found innocent of their crimes dozens of years after serving their crimes sometimes.
  
  I see that we just can't come to an agreement mostly because we have fundamentally different views on human value and our methods of dealing with crime.
  
  All I can say is that I strongly believe a large amount of the popular desire for justice and vindication is an emotionally driven behavior that disrupts rational approach towards criminals. I'll continue to promote deinstitutionalization of death row and dissuade the celebration of revenge deaths/assaults/rape.
  
  The end. Still too salty, I'm gonna go punch a baby for a few weeks (because babies aren't people). Bye.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-05-02 23:16

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218453:

  But that's exactly why time specific punishments exist. There are just as many people who have committed crimes and served prison time and have been rehabilitated, functioning perfectly fine in society, compared to those who return to prison.

  
  
  And for those that don't? And commit their crimes again. And again. And again. And again? How do you intend to keep people safe from them?
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218453:

  We *punish* people for crimes. We. Don't. Kill. Them. We shouldn't be celebrating death either. Even for death row, which is rather uncommon, there is a study proving one out of 25 people who were put on it are actually innocent. Such a horribly inefficient system has no place in a modern society.

  
  
  Death is a punishment. And we do kill them, obviously. They just keep trying to come up with more humane ways to do it, even though death is already humane. Being locked in a cell for the rest of my life, no thanks.
  
  That depends entirely on which study you read. I've seen 1/100 are innocent, 1/25 are innocent, 1/50 are innocent, 1/200 are innocent, and "It's impossible to know how many". Such unreliable studies shouldn't be used as fact.
  
  

  Quote from Cucurbita;1218453:

  And this nonviolent crimes bs is just another example of human imperfection. So once again, we follow the formula of "but what about people who committed nonviolent crimes" and you go "I suppose they didn't deserve death", but we live in an overly complex world where white collar crimes can (and do) have a far more devastating effect than any sort of violent crime could ever hope to match. So maybe you need to take a step back and reflect on whether or not you should just proclaim the black and whiteness of a person's value the next time you're faced with someone's death. Or, at least be sensitive enough to make edgy jokes about it, because that could be anyone in there, and anyone's friend or family here.

  
  
  I said Nonviolent MISDEMEANORS. If your life is seriously fucked up by someone committing a nonviolent misdemeanor against you, you ave problems. Nonviolent misdemeanors are trespassing, public intoxication, prostitution, marijuana possession, etc. So if someone being a prostitute is more devastating than someone murdering your grandmother, I don't even know what to say to that.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-05-04 06:11
  Oh boy, I usually steer clear of debates that i do not have full knowledge so i don't look naive and ignorant, but i guess i will try to make a statement here.
  
  Human life is human life, barring some horrific mental condition, every human should be able to be redeemed, allowing to be put back in the work force and be productive members of society. The US has a horrible and terrible system in place for offenders. Especially that sex offender registry list.
  
  On one hand, it can show you where sex offenders are. On the other hand, it labels minor sex acts like public urination and indecent exposure as that. One overly drunk night and an angry judge and you are fucked. And some of those people want to be hard working people who made mistakes in their past. Now they can't. Shitty system i tell you. And it's extremely easy to accuse someone of something they didn't do in this current judicial system...
  
  I mean, honestly? People shouldn't being committing crimes anyway. Some do it out of desperation, stealing so you can have enough to eat, etc.
  
  Don't even get me started on racism and how everyone on this planet is racist.
  /the day racism ends is the day people stop putting their race on applications. Equal opportunity my ass.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-05-04 06:25
  I'm probably going to get yelled at for this.
  
  I believe the death penalty is viable for certain offenders that are deemed worthy of it. I actually believe in the old term "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" mainly because sometimes people just dont learn. You can give people second chances, however theres a point where doing so will only get more people injured or hurt. Keeping someone in jail for the rest of their lives I feel is just a waste of money and jail space. Not only that but there is the chance that a multiple offense murderer could kill another prison mate that might have had less of a charge or a small charge while in prison. Honestly speaking of humane, the methods of the death penalty are far more humane than the methods some of the murderers in jail actually used to kill their victims, some of them actually tortured their victims and all they really get is a relaxing sleep forever from the death penalty. I'm pretty neutral on most things honestly, but I feel the death penalty (while it could be worked on a bit) is still useful in modern society and should be used in certain circumstances.
• Brynn wrote on 2014-05-04 14:36

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1218265:

  
  Narcotics don't put people in prison, stupidity puts people in prison. If you are caught with weed once you get a slap on the wrist. They take it from you, maybe spend a few days in lock-up at a sheriff's office or doing community service. You only get sent to prison if you are a multiple time offender or have such a large amount they think you're distributing.

  
  
  That still doesn't take the fact away that they are practically innocent people.
  
  
  EDIT: just read a little farther and this thread has gotten way out of hand. P.S. I literally said a large % without even looking it up. Not really gonna read the rest of it past page one, don't care enough to.
• M wrote on 2014-05-04 15:01
  There are just too many reports about this thread and not enough moderators/time to deal with it so I'm going to just lock this one for now.