Magic Craft Training (Explained Through Gratuitous Numbers)

• Zwartwit wrote on 2014-06-20 00:57
  So I did some math.
  
  Specifically, I wanted to figure out how long it would take me to train up my Magic Craft skill so I could start cranking out Hermit Staves. I was contemplating doing a bunch of dailies and then blowing all of them on Skill Training Seals to expedite the process, but I was thinking about whether or not that would be worth it.
  
  Then I did aforementioned math.
  
  Ranking Magic Craft up from Rank C to Rank B, assuming that one takes the quickest training path, costs 2600 Shyllien Crystals. 2000 for the 40 points of magic conversion, 600 for the 60 points of mana bullet crafting, and that's assuming a success each and every single time you make an object.
  
  Let's say that you're a really, really awesome fellow who just so happened to start pick up the trade of Magic Crafting. Let's also say that you somehow have Rank 1 Shyllien Ecology because you...I dunno, picked it up to gather a bunch of herbs. Whatever.
  
  You gather up a small army of friends for the sole purpose of clearing their path through Outskirts District 2. You blitzes straight for the back.
  
  This is where the math starts. Note, this all assumes completely uninterrupted gathering times, an infinite supply of Blasted Oak Wands, some kind of insta-teleportation, that you're being frugal and not blowing any money on upgrades to the Wands, that you're is the most unlucky person in the world and doesn't get a single Lucky Bonus, and that you're the only person there who's trying to collect from the deposits.
  
  At Rank 1 Shyllien Ecology, it takes 3 seconds per gathering attempt. The deposit in the back holds 500 Shyllien Crystals, with a 100% success rate. Clearing it out takes 1500 seconds, or 25 minutes. Nice and simple, right? Now we have a little under a sixth of how much we need.
  
  ...then stuff gets weird.
  
  See, you now has to delve into the deposits scattered throughout the area. And these deposits have a 60% chance of dropping Shyllien Crystals, holding 80 materials apiece. This is where probability comes in.
  
  There is a .000000000000000178% chance of getting a Crystal from every single drop of the deposit. So that's unlikely. You will, on an absolute average, only get 48 Crystals per smaller deposit.
  
  And THAT'S assuming that you don't get knocked back, which happens 15% of the time, the knockback stunning you for...let's say a second. So, an average run will take 282 seconds, or 4.7 minutes.
  
  So, on absolute average, that's 48 crystals per 4.7 minutes.
  
  Now, the large deposit in the back respawns after 10 minutes, and that's really nice and doesn't involve probability, so you're going to dash for that right away. Running a proportion determines that (again, using averages) after 10 minutes of plundering the large deposits, one would acquire 102 Shyllien Crystals. Then it would be back to the original cycle.
  
  So, it would continue on and on in intervals. Plunder back deposit, plunder smaller deposits, plunder back deposit. It goes like this:
  
  Back deposit: 500 Shyllien Crystals in 25 minutes
  Smaller deposits: 102 Shyllien Crystals in 10 minutes
  1 Cycle: 602 Shyllien Crystals in 35 minutes
  
  So, it would take our Crafter approximately 4.32 cycles to acquire the 2600 crystals (and, remember, that's a MINIMUM) to Rank Magic Craft from C to B. That's a little over two and a half hours straight of entirely Shyllien gathering.
  
  Now, let's figure out how many Blasted Oak Wands you need!
  
  Blasted Oak Wands, like all gathering tools, use up 1 durability point per 10 gathers. Blasted Oak Wands from Sylvia have a Durability of 21, meaning that they have a lifespan of 210 gathers. At absolute minimum, assuming that every single one of your 2600 gathers succeeds and gets a Crystal, this would burn through 13 Blasted Oak Wands.
  
  However, let's use those averages we determined up there. 2600 Crystals takes 4.32 cycles with each cycle taking 35 minutes, meaning that it's 151.2 minutes long. Remembering that Rank 1 Shyllien Ecology lets you gather once per 3 seconds, that means an average of 27216 gathers. That burns through 130 Blasted Oak Wands. With Blasted Oak Wands costing 5k Gold apiece, this totals out to 650,000 gold in Blasted Oak Wands alone.
  
  Also, by the way, one person can only hold an absolute maximum, assuming that you're stuffing your inventory full of Medium-sized bags, 45 Blasted Oak Wands. Also you need to carry the Shyllien Crystals you gather, requiring that you have your entire inventory almost completely empty (unless, of course, you're using an item bag).
  
  In summary, to obtain the absolute minimum of 2600 Shyllien Crystals to rank Magic Craft up from C to B, you need two and a half hours of straight Shyllien gathering using 650k gold worth of Blasted Oak Wands.
  
  And, remember, that's assuming the following:
  
  1. You have a supply of people who are willing and able to prevent you from ever getting hit or interrupted ever.
  2. Every single one of your crafts using those 2600 crystals succeed.
  3. You have the inventory space and designated pack mules to carry all of the crystals and Oak Wands.
  4. You have Rank 1 Shyllien Ecology.
  5. You're willing to put up with two and a half straight hours of straight-up Shyllien gathering.
  6. You don't have any better or worse luck than absolute average.
  
  That's also ignoring how long it takes you to move from one deposit to the next and switch wands.
  
  And, remember, this is JUST TO RANK FROM RANK C TO RANK B.
  
  The average Shyllien gathering rate, following my gathered statistics, is about 1 Crystal per 3.5 seconds...assuming that you have an army of people willing to constantly fight off plants, bunnies, and sasquatches, infinite storage space, and a bladder of compressed titanium.
  
  You can factor in a whole bunch of other things that I didn't bother going into, but the conclusion is clear: Magic Craft training is a pain in the rear.
• Invisible wrote on 2014-06-20 03:02
  That's not the best way to train Magic Craft. You should never gather from the giant rock in the back because you'll be short on herbs for the precious Mysterious Herb Powders that you'll need for the later ranks. Here's some training tips based on my experience:
  
  It's possible to defeat monsters until you have a safe pocket to gather from 3 deposits, which is enough to gather endlessly.
  You should always try to make Mana Bullets instead of Training Bullets whenever possible.
  Being knocked back means you failed at gathering. At higher ranks of Shyllien Ecology, success rate increases.
  At early ranks, you should be blessing your Blasted Oak Staves unless Holy Water costs more than 5k each on your server.
  You should have rank 1 Harvest Song and luck set for lucky bonuses.
  At higher ranks, you'll be crafting more Blasted Oak Staves than you can use them. Unblessed too!
  
  I thought it was already well established that Magic Craft was one of the most tedious skills in the game.
• Zwartwit wrote on 2014-06-20 08:16
  I dunno, I just did a crapton of math out of boredom and felt like putting it on here for people to see. I'll probably re-run the numbers once I'm able to account for all variables, though.
  
  But one question: Why regular Mana Bullets instead of Training ones? If they give the same number of points, wouldn't it be more cost-efficient to just go with the Training ones, since they only use Crystals instead of Shyllien proper?
  
  Also, another thing to help with my numbers: Is it worth it to pour resources into crafting things that won't see use, or should one go ahead with it anyways? Or, really, which one is quicker?
• Robchidori wrote on 2014-06-20 08:25
  Since you need Shyllien for Mana Bullets, you'll be crafting the Shyllien first and then craft the bullets, you'll waste more crystals, yes, but at the end you'll evenly train the Magic conversion and the Mana bullets reqs, making it easier to brionac at higher ranks.
  
  Some people might dislike this method, but for me it seems more efficient than crafting plain training bullets, you can also sell Mana Bullets for profit or use them.
• Froglord of DESTINY!!! wrote on 2014-06-20 09:12
  Hillwen engineering is pretty simple in contrast.
  
  
  >Drill middle rock
  >Get 4000 hillwen ores
  >Make 4000 nuts and bolts
  >fill less than 1% of the requirement at rank 5+
  
  Rinse and repeat
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-06-20 10:08
  All in the name of money, for Nexon that is. At some point I calculated the full cost assuming 4x life skill experience I just decided it wasn't worth the stats I didn't need. I'll never forget how much money people paid for guns and staves upon release though, and how much money the crafters had made. I'll never understand it either, but it does amuse me.
• kaozking wrote on 2014-06-20 10:27

  Quote from Zekkii;1226967:

  All in the name of money, for Nexon that is. At some point I calculated the full cost assuming 4x life skill experience I just decided it wasn't worth the stats I didn't need. I'll never forget how much money people paid for guns and staves upon release though, and how much money the crafters had made. I'll never understand it either, but it does amuse me.

  
  
  I made 40m when druid was realeased and 10m off of 2 staves when mc was released
  

  [Image: http://media3.giphy.com/media/pNZizv6pNwe7C/200.gif]
• Nightmare wrote on 2014-06-20 22:04
  Brionac and training seals is how I lived through it. Doing it any other way is torture.
• Zwartwit wrote on 2014-06-21 03:37
  Well, due to my obsession with doing things in order, I have yet to actually acquire Broniac due to still being on G7. I am, however, hoarding my Training Seals for the higher levels.
  
  Speaking of which, when would it be advisable to start pulling out the training seals and speeding up the process?
• Nightmare wrote on 2014-06-21 05:11

  Quote from Zwartwit;1227117:

  Well, due to my obsession with doing things in order, I have yet to actually acquire Broniac due to still being on G7. I am, however, hoarding my Training Seals for the higher levels.
  
  Speaking of which, when would it be advisable to start pulling out the training seals and speeding up the process?

  
  
  At any time. You'll devote far less time and have a lot more fun if you grinded out all the seals you can get in a day. If you want to save some time though, you can always grind out the seals and train. Both engineering and magic craft are huge time sinks without seals/brionac.