HAGI OR STARBLADE?

• Azuresereph wrote on 2014-07-27 18:44

  Quote from ironwoman;1235440:

  1. Derank all your magic. Sorry to say, but the only thing useful out of your magic tab is rank 1 firebolt, and bunch of others ranked for not much help.

  
  
  The only thing wrong with that statement is for firebolt to be any good at r1 you need MWM as well and possibly fire mastery just for that extra boost. Which are hardly "not much help". Aside from that I agree he should derank some magic for ap if he wants to get higher damage with ninja.
• Rydian wrote on 2014-07-27 19:03

  Quote from ironwoman;1235440:

  Alright, let's break this down one by one.~

  
  Okay wait wait wait. I'm not asking for me. I'm asking for the other guy.
  
  I'm asking you why you say it's "easy" to reach 420 average damage with shurikens.
  You told the person it was easy, you responded to the discussion by saying that it was easy.
  
  So how do you do it so it's easy? What skills do you rank to what, how much time and AP will it take? How much gold and time will it take to get a proper gear set for that damage? Is NX directly involved or not?
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-27 19:25

  Quote from Rydian;1235449:

  Okay wait wait wait. I'm not asking for me. I'm asking for the other guy.
  
  I'm asking you why you say it's "easy" to reach 420 average damage with shurikens.
  You told the person it was easy, you responded to the discussion by saying that it was easy.
  
  So how do you do it so it's easy? What skills do you rank to what, how much time and AP will it take? How much gold and time will it take to get a proper gear set for that damage? Is NX directly involved or not?

  
  
  Well, you posted your screenshot and google doc, so it kinda seemed like you posted that to contradict my claim that it's easy.
  
  First, easy is a relative term. For me, it was easy. Also note that easy doesn't necessarily mean done in short time. It just means lesser grind within that time period, at least for me.
  
  As for the other person, which I assume is the OP, we have no idea what his stats are, what gears he uses, etc. How am I supposed to answer how easy will it be for him in that case? I'd need some background information, which is another reason why I referred to your stats.
  
  How do I do it so that it's easy? I'll tell you this. It's not necessarily a short-time period thing. Some skill rankings will obviously take longer, but as for Str skills, there aren't that many that take significant amount of time.
  
  What skills do I rank, how muc htime, and AP will it take? I'll say this. Basically all rank 1 combat tab. Combat skills are actually the less grindy of the strr skills. There are clean up skills, like mining, and mineralogy. Carpentry you can do easily if you have a partner, and even if you don't, it's still not the worst skill to rank in Mabinogi. As for time, if you can get access to 2k ish AP, you can get whole combat tab cleared within 3 weeks from start to finish. No skills will actually involve gold, except maybe Carpentry when you want to buy mats. As for Will, rank fighter, WM, crit, then it's pretty easy.
  
  How much gold and time will it take to get a proper gear set for that damage? I'll use Alexinian standard here for now. You can theoretically spend 0 gold and still get the set I mentioned, but that won't happen. Realistically, after 3 weeks (5 if you're unlucky), you should have gotten Dexterity and Fleet from the elite runs of dailies. Deserted is dirt cheap in Alexina, highest I've seen was 100k. Quartz Pitch Black armors you can eventually get when you spam raids, or just buy for 300k. For Viscount, greedy people want to sell at around 600k, but you can still put a party up for 200k and still get it. Thanks to the recent poopage of Expansive gathering Knives, those burns are now bought at 100k~200k. For suffix, you can just slap on Elegant for balance. Stout EQ accs are 50k each. Under these assumptions, which is also very realistic and practical, will cost you 700k, and 3~6 weeks.
  
  Is NX directly involved or not? It would have been if free RB isn't a thing. I'd say NX is involved if you're using a partner, but you should be able to get around the skills without using NX at all.
• Rydian wrote on 2014-07-27 23:34
  I posted it to show that you can have a lot of time and work invested into a character and not have 420 damage with shurikens, to show that it's not something natural and that much str/will will have to be worked for specifically over a period of time.
  
  The point I'm trying to get through to you with me doing this every so often is... if "easy" is relative, you're goddamn zeus.
  
  "R1 everything in the combat tab" - Not easy, not quick. I spent a few days on lance Charge alone and it's just R3 still. Even discounting the training time for combat skills, the combat skill tab is like 3000 AP, and that's a lot of time and work. New players aren't like old ones, they don't sit around with 1000+ AP magically saved up for whatever skillset is coming out next so any work on skills will also involve time getting the AP for all the ranks.
  
  ... not to say that I don't appreciate how well you point out specific improvements and goals, but if this stuff is "easy", I shudder to look at anything you think is hard.
• Adrianblade wrote on 2014-07-28 05:13
  Maybe a screen shot of your ranked skills and your equipment tab with just shuriken will help shed some light on this xD
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-28 11:17

  Quote from Adrianblade;1235528:

  Maybe a screen shot of your ranked skills and your equipment tab with just shuriken will help shed some light on this xD

  
  
  Which he did, just not the OP, who should probably be concerned about it.
  
  As for Rydian, Just different standard is all. You somehow managed to get r5 engineering, compared to that lance charge is a piece of cake by a ridiculous amount.
  
  Also, in your words, "Not easy, not quick". I beg to differ as I would say there are things that are easy, but not quick.
  I would also like ti mention that my combat tab was ranked when AP weren't available as much. Meaning new players can still do this fairly quickly.
  
  How about this: when your character will focus on str and will, the said damage in shuriken will be easy to get. For you and many other's cases, this part is not true, since it's apparent that you digressed into other stats.
• qaccy wrote on 2014-07-28 14:04
  Ninja for damage? 'Kay, I'll stick with guns. By and large, Ninja is only good for stats or if you prefer screwing around with enemies rather than killing them.
  
  [S]Now here comes a swarm of people who're mad about me knocking ninja[/S]
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-28 15:30

  Quote from qaccy;1235568:

  Ninja for damage? 'Kay, I'll stick with guns. By and large, Ninja is only good for stats or if you prefer screwing around with enemies rather than killing them.
  
  [S]Now here comes a swarm of people who're mad about me knocking ninja[/S]

  
  
  I mean, like it or not, that is the reality.
  
  Sorry people, but many of you were way too excited about Ninja. I already knew Ninja was gonna be an inefficient skillset that I won't use after training.
  You can still use it if you want, I couldn't give less shit.
• Zomgjoe wrote on 2014-07-29 06:34
  "R1 everything in the combat tab" - Not easy, not quick. I spent a few days on lance Charge alone and it's just R3 still. Even discounting the training time for combat skills, the combat skill tab is like 3000 AP, and that's a lot of time and work. New players aren't like old ones, they don't sit around with 1000+ AP magically saved up for whatever skillset is coming out next so any work on skills will also involve time getting the AP for all the ranks.
  
  Are you seriously that stupid man. For one why would new players be on the mabination site? two, last time i checked you get free daily rb until u hit lvl 1000 so yes they do have 1k+ ap at their use. and yes 500 max is fucking easy to get im an elf and i have more than that... I know youre sad because you cant buy a brain with nx but noone can help you there.
• Stevenjr626 wrote on 2014-07-30 02:33

  Quote from ironwoman;1235452:

  Well, you posted your screenshot and google doc, so it kinda seemed like you posted that to contradict my claim that it's easy.
  
  First, easy is a relative term. For me, it was easy. Also note that easy doesn't necessarily mean done in short time. It just means lesser grind within that time period, at least for me.
  
  
  As for the other person, which I assume is the OP, we have no idea what his stats are, what gears he uses, etc. How am I supposed to answer how easy will it be for him in that case? I'd need some background information, which is another reason why I referred to your stats.
  
  How do I do it so that it's easy? I'll tell you this. It's not necessarily a short-time period thing. Some skill rankings will obviously take longer, but as for Str skills, there aren't that many that take significant amount of time.
  
  What skills do I rank, how muc htime, and AP will it take? I'll say this. Basically all rank 1 combat tab. Combat skills are actually the less grindy of the strr skills. There are clean up skills, like mining, and mineralogy. Carpentry you can do easily if you have a partner, and even if you don't, it's still not the worst skill to rank in Mabinogi. As for time, if you can get access to 2k ish AP, you can get whole combat tab cleared within 3 weeks from start to finish. No skills will actually involve gold, except maybe Carpentry when you want to buy mats. As for Will, rank fighter, WM, crit, then it's pretty easy.
  
  How much gold and time will it take to get a proper gear set for that damage? I'll use Alexinian standard here for now. You can theoretically spend 0 gold and still get the set I mentioned, but that won't happen. Realistically, after 3 weeks (5 if you're unlucky), you should have gotten Dexterity and Fleet from the elite runs of dailies. Deserted is dirt cheap in Alexina, highest I've seen was 100k. Quartz Pitch Black armors you can eventually get when you spam raids, or just buy for 300k. For Viscount, greedy people want to sell at around 600k, but you can still put a party up for 200k and still get it. Thanks to the recent poopage of Expansive gathering Knives, those burns are now bought at 100k~200k. For suffix, you can just slap on Elegant for balance. Stout EQ accs are 50k each. Under these assumptions, which is also very realistic and practical, will cost you 700k, and 3~6 weeks.
  
  Is NX directly involved or not? It would have been if free RB isn't a thing. I'd say NX is involved if you're using a partner, but you should be able to get around the skills without using NX at all.

  
  
  Hate to go off topic but I was considering training fighter for Will and magic defense, but seing that there is no more fighter training pots im afraid.... I was planning to use a couple of those for later ranks...... I wonder if Nexon will bring back the training potions in eweca :/
• Cookiebunny wrote on 2014-07-30 04:04

  Quote from Stevenjr626;1235858:

  Hate to go off topic but I was considering training fighter for Will and magic defense, but seing that there is no more fighter training pots im afraid.... I was planning to use a couple of those for later ranks...... I wonder if Nexon will bring back the training potions in eweca :/

  
  
  I thought I wouldn't be able to rank up my fighter skills without the pots either, but if you take advantage of the current fighter training bonus hours going on this week or rebirth to fighter talent, you'll still pull through. Even if you decide that it's not worth the trouble without pots, there are so many other skills that give will! http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats_and_Skills#Will
  You'll probably end up deranking your ninja skills after the ninja event's over anyway, so I don't think you should worry so much about will; rather, you should just go back to what you were working on. Just train ninja for the hell of it instead of worrying about the damage output. :u
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-30 04:38

  Quote from Cookiebunny;1235869:

  I thought I wouldn't be able to rank up my fighter skills without the pots either, but if you take advantage of the current fighter training bonus hours going on this week or rebirth to fighter talent, you'll still pull through. Even if you decide that it's not worth the trouble without pots, there are so many other skills that give will! http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats_and_Skills#Will
  You'll probably end up deranking your ninja skills after the ninja event's over anyway, so I don't think you should worry so much about will; rather, you should just go back to what you were working on. Just train ninja for the hell of it instead of worrying about the damage output. :u

  
  
  I don't think the way of raising will (aka magic shields) will be any more fun than fighter.
  I mean, there are skills that are way more grindy. Have you tried long-term life skills, like tailoring?
  If fighter needs pots, I'm not sure what to feel about skills like tailoring and blacksmithing.
  
  People ranked the skills without pots in the old days, suck it up and rank it.
  
  Also, there is no reason to de-rank Ninja skills. Would you give up on 200+ str? Didn't think so.
• Cookiebunny wrote on 2014-07-30 05:18

  Quote from ironwoman;1235871:

  I don't think the way of raising will (aka magic shields) will be any more fun than fighter.

  
  I was simply saying there are other skills besides fighter that grant will, such as hoeing and harvesting.
  
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1235871:

  
  Also, there is no reason to de-rank Ninja skills. Would you give up on 200+ str? Didn't think so.

  
  
  Deranking them doesn't mean they need to stay at rank F forever. Not everyone out there is maining melee. AP distribution matters a lot more if you're lacking in the AP, and that alone is a reason for deranking the skills -- redistributing the AP into skills you'd rather focus on.
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-30 06:09

  Quote from Cookiebunny;1235875:

  
  Deranking them doesn't mean they need to stay at rank F forever. Not everyone out there is maining melee. AP distribution matters a lot more if you're lacking in the AP, and that alone is a reason for deranking the skills -- redistributing the AP into skills you'd rather focus on.

  
  
  Not only does the skillset give 200+ str, it also gives 120+ will. No other skillsets provide this much of stats.
  Also, considering that the OP says he utilizes puppet, giving up that much of stats would be foolish, especially considering that str has way more use than will.
• Rydian wrote on 2014-07-30 14:43
  STR giving to base defense is a good enough reason to keep at least some around, especially if you're limited to light armor and clothing (based on race or skillset).