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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-13 18:17
-Don't do elf archery, in fact, don't do archery at all. It's aggravating at times, and magic is only a tad bit slower unless you're zero shooting.
-Reforges make this talent shine. That being said, it's kinda necessary. You cannot survive on stats alone, unless you're only hunting bandits or something. I tried playing without reforges, and its no cakewalk. Unreforged Archery is like magic, except slower and less reliable.
-The only reason why you should use this talent is when bandit hunting atop a mount. Or you found something with mana resistance.
-Source=4 years as a Grandmaster Elf Archer
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alwmiioktm wrote on 2014-12-13 19:46
Quote from Blissfulkill;1257150:
-Don't do elf archery, in fact, don't do archery at all. It's aggravating at times, and magic is only a tad bit slower unless you're zero shooting.
-Reforges make this talent shine. That being said, it's kinda necessary. You cannot survive on stats alone, unless you're only hunting bandits or something. I tried playing without reforges, and its no cakewalk. Unreforged Archery is like magic, except slower and less reliable.
-The only reason why you should use this talent is when bandit hunting atop a mount. Or you found something with mana resistance.
-Source=4 years as a Grandmaster Elf Archer
Are you talking about a server that isn't NA? Because talent system hasn't been out since 2010, and I have to disagree magic and range are two completely different play styles. Lag plays a serious part in how efficient archery is, so saying its slow would be a personal bias. In no way would I say it's slower than magic given the same person were playing both a mage playstyle and an elf range playstyle (Unless you include speed casting reforge, but I didn't because you said unreforged archery so I assumed unreforged magic)
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-13 22:23
This is so biased and misinformative.
Elf archery is still fine where it's at, although it still could use some tweaks. Having played both Elf and Human on archery, I'd take Elf archery over Human any day.
While I agree that reforges do make the talent shine, I gotta ask, what set up besides reforge do you use and what's your max damage? Because if you're running around with a shitty-ass gear and have low max damage, of course the talent won't serve well, the talent is designed to shine at a higher max damage. Specifically, you would see it being good at around mid-high 600 max. At the end, when you have high enough stats, you'll still steamroll through the content. Hell, I've still got like 80-60 more dex to cap, and I still find content easy enough.
Having this is a "guide"? Nope, this is just a useless rant. You provide 0 helpful tips in this thing whatsoever. If you actually want to make a helpful guide, I'm just gonna say get good. You have no rights to complain if you haven't even seen the better end of the talent.
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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-13 23:26
Quote from ironwoman;1257171:
This is so biased and misinformative.
Elf archery is still fine where it's at, although it still could use some tweaks. Having played both Elf and Human on archery, I'd take Elf archery over Human any day.
While I agree that reforges do make the talent shine, I gotta ask, what set up besides reforge do you use and what's your max damage? Because if you're running around with a shitty-ass gear and have low max damage, of course the talent won't serve well, the talent is designed to shine at a higher max damage. Specifically, you would see it being good at around mid-high 600 max. At the end, when you have high enough stats, you'll still steamroll through the content. Hell, I've still got like 80-60 more dex to cap, and I still find content easy enough.
Having this is a "guide"? Nope, this is just a useless rant. You provide 0 helpful tips in this thing whatsoever. If you actually want to make a helpful guide, I'm just gonna say get good. You have no rights to complain if you haven't even seen the better end of the talent.
I don't usually do hard missions, but when I do, I'm usually last in dps. My damage range is around 421 with crap weaponry. I don't use reforges, but it feels necessary for harder content, seeing as I already have a lot of Dex. (822 is high for me qq.) I have no trouble with it on lower difficulties, but higher it feels like a pain to use, especially solo.
I didn't mean to single out elf archery, because I think archery in itself is sort of bad. I rather firebolt if I don't have reforges. That's why I at least recommend reforges for harder content.
As for the speed, I found unless I am zero shooting that it is indeed slow, perhaps even slower than magic, but I think the different is negligible. The benefits are not.
I tried making this talent work, but I feels that I cannot recommend this talent without reforges, otherwise it's just bad magic.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-13 23:41
Quote from Blissfulkill;1257175:
I don't usually do hard missions, but when I do, I'm usually last in dps. My damage range is around 421 with crap weaponry. I don't use reforges, but it feels necessary for harder content, seeing as I already have a lot of Dex. (822 is high for me qq.) I have no trouble with it on lower difficulties, but higher it feels like a pain to use, especially solo.
I didn't mean to single out elf archery, because I think archery in itself is sort of bad. I rather firebolt if I don't have reforges. That's why I at least recommend reforges for harder content.
As for the speed, I found unless I am zero shooting that it is indeed slow, perhaps even slower than magic, but I think the different is negligible. The benefits are not.
I tried making this talent work, but I feels that I cannot recommend this talent without reforges, otherwise it's just bad magic.
There's your problem. You don't have the stats. And you say you don't usually do hard missions? I don't expect people that linger around in the lower level part of the game to comment on the skillset that they obviously don't fully understand. If you're trying to make a "guide" about skillsets, at least be a somewhat accomplished user in those skillsets. Grandmaster Archer doesn't count when you can't even reach 500 max, which is still considered earlier stage of the game.
421 damage? Even with crap weapon, that's almost early game-tier damage. My naked barehand is much higher than that. And my naked bow damage is 150 higher than that. You don't even have 1k dex, how would you expect to do the damage? I just logged onto my friend's elf account which hasn't been played for a year, and the character still has 590 max naked. When you're nowhere near around this level, of course archery's gonna suck, it's designed to just blow at early game damages.
While I agree that firebolt is better in the stages of no reforge, all that still becomes false when you have high enough of a stat. Range will out damage firebolt, even at my uncapped stage of the game.
The talent does work. All I can say is that you're too weak to make use of it.
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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-13 23:46
Quote from ironwoman;1257176:
There's your problem. You don't have the stats. And you say you don't usually do hard missions? I don't expect people that linger around in the lower level part of the game to comment on the skillset that they obviously don't fully understand. If you're trying to make a "guide" about skillsets, at least be a somewhat accomplished user in those skillsets. Grandmaster Archer doesn't count when you can't even reach 500 max, which is still considered earlier stage of the game.
421 damage? Even with crap weapon, that's almost early game-tier damage. My naked barehand is much higher than that. And my naked bow damage is 150 higher than that. You don't even have 1k dex, how would you expect to do the damage? I just logged onto my friend's elf account which hasn't been played for a year, and the character still has 590 max naked. When you're nowhere near around this level, of course archery's gonna suck, it's designed to just blow at early game damages.
While I agree that firebolt is better in the stages of no reforge, all that still becomes false when you have high enough of a stat. Range will out damage firebolt, even at my uncapped stage of the game.
The talent does work. All I can say is that you're too weak to make use of it.
I am not weak enough to use it. I am saying I don't recommend this talent without reforges. To recommend archery without reforges is simply idiotic, unless we're talking low key content.
Though I will capitulate. It is a good damage support skill, but soloing? It's slow. Unless there's adv heavy stander and final shot readying up.
You cannot recommend archery without including a note on reforges. It's irresponsible.
P.S. That's my max damage, hence the word damage range. Sorry for the confusion. I note 2k damage without reforges.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-13 23:59
Quote from Blissfulkill;1257178:
I am not weak enough to use it. I am saying I don't recommend this talent without reforges. To recommend archery without reforges is simply idiotic, unless we're talking low key content.
Though I will capitulate. It is a good damage support skill, but soloing? It's slow. Unless there's adv heavy stander and final shot readying up.
You cannot recommend archery without including a note on reforges. It's irresponsible.
P.S. That's my max damage, hence the word damage range. Sorry for the confusion. I note 2k damage without reforges.
I know that's your max damage. I don't need much to figure out what your damage range is. And your max damage is on the early game tier, the part where range does not shine. So yes, you are weak in archery. Whether that 400 damage is weak or not you could say is subjective... but ask most people around here, and they'll say similar things.
While I would still recommend reforges for the skillset, I'm not gonna say it's impossible to do archery without reforges. When your stats are high enough, you should be at a point where you don't really need reforges to steamroll.
Because you really don't have much invested in the skillset and also having low damage... you can't really recommend people on not using it while you're not even at the high level of using it. I mean, for fuck's sake, I had that 400 max before all the talents bullshit came in, when I was in mid total 1k level. You clearly don't have the gears to get the damage, and archery's one of those skillsets that heavily relies on gear. You're free to comment on the skillset when you have invested enough into it, but right now, what you say is more of a complaint. You're not bringing anything constructive. Even as a human, slower archer than Elves, I can clear rooms faster than most mages can, and I'll still out DPS them. Note that I'm human, and I still have skills to cap, so my damage is nowhere near the best.
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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-14 00:13
Quote from ironwoman;1257181:
I know that's your max damage. I don't need much to figure out what your damage range is. And your max damage is on the early game tier, the part where range does not shine. So yes, you are weak in archery. Whether that 400 damage is weak or not you could say is subjective... but ask most people around here, and they'll say similar things.
While I would still recommend reforges for the skillset, I'm not gonna say it's impossible to do archery without reforges. When your stats are high enough, you should be at a point where you don't really need reforges to steamroll.
Because you really don't have much invested in the skillset and also having low damage... you can't really recommend people on not using it while you're not even at the high level of using it. I mean, for fuck's sake, I had that 400 max before all the talents bullshit came in, when I was in mid total 1k level. You clearly don't have the gears to get the damage, and archery's one of those skillsets that heavily relies on gear. You're free to comment on the skillset when you have invested enough into it, but right now, what you say is more of a complaint. You're not bringing anything constructive. Even as a human, slower archer than Elves, I can clear rooms faster than most mages can, and I'll still out DPS them. Note that I'm human, and I still have skills to cap, so my damage is nowhere near the best.
Wow, your standards must be high. I'm not claiming to be the best, but I think I progressed enough to know how crappy archery is without reforges.
P.S. I maxed out every archery skill. How is that not invested? Face it, my damage is only low because of lack of reforging.
--- Merged Double Post ---
I did some number crunchy, and I would have about 550 damage with full gear. Seriously. You people need to get off your fucking high chairs.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-14 00:21
Quote from Blissfulkill;1257182:
Wow, your standards must be high. I'm not claiming to be the best, but I think I progressed enough to know how crappy archery is without reforges.
P.S. I maxed out every archery skill. How is that not invested? Face it, my damage is only low because of lack of reforging.
--- Merged Double Post ---
I did some number crunchy, and I would have about 550 damage with full gear. Seriously. You people need to get off your fucking high chairs.
Investing in archery isn't just maxing out every skill in range set. You have to rank bunch of other life skills. Like I said before, range doesn't shine until 600s max. And you can't say your damage is low only because of reforging. With good enough stats and gears, you can surpass the 600 mark, and those don't come from reforging, they come from stats and enchants, both of which is highly crucial for range. I'm saying that when I see someone discussing a skillset, I expect them to be experts at it. You in this case, aren't.
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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-14 00:23
That's enough to solo an elite gate of TDB....in other words...fuck your standards. I don't have to be an expert in a skillset to critique, just well versed in it. My problem isn't the damage per shot, it's the speed and reliability.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-14 00:30
400 damage enough to solo a tdb elite gate? Not at all.
You're not even well versed in it, you're lacking the experience. If you really are experienced in the skillset, you wouldn't even be complaining about range. The speed and reliability of range has a lot to do with damage, unfortunately. More powerful you become in range, more reliable and quick it will be, you're just not at that stage yet.
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Blissfulkill wrote on 2014-12-14 00:33
I give up. My 4 years as an elf archer apparently mean nothing to yours, and thus I can't critique it.
To be fair, I died halfway through due to my inherent squishiness, but I consider even making it there a feat in itself.
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ironwoman wrote on 2014-12-14 00:44
4 years means nothing if you can't pull damage out of it. During those 4 years, you had all the chance to raise your stats, get decent gears. You didn't do much of that and you're saying archery is bad, well, because you don't do well with it. I don't care how long you played for, it's more about how you played in those years. There are people who played since the beta and still can't outdamage me, and there are people who managed to surpass my level in matter of months.
So before you go criticizing range, get good.