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Tyskiyomy wrote on 2014-12-15 00:12
I think the concept of changing standards such as the nightmare humanoids was fun, it really made people who focus on certain talents[like me :>] hassle to use something else while they are in that standard.
And also, advanced heavy standard makes most things that have it a chore and annoying not challenging.
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-12-15 00:13
Quote from Noel Vermillion;1257343:
Pretty much this. We need bosses that telegraph their attacks in some way, while still being able to survive the onslaught of damage we can toss at them now. Just tossing adv heavy stander on a boss with smash and counter simply ends up being a spam whatever ranged attack you have or abuse pets on the boss type thing.
But not throwing heavy standard on it just becomes a "Lol stun it" fight, as that's all you need to do to win with more than one person. Even then, WM spam is enough to keep almost anything in place till it dies if you have enough people doing it, because of the AI reset. Seph is the odd one out on this, because he's meant for solo and built for it, while all the others are meant for parties and not solo. That being said, not many do the party play right. They just spam monsters and crap with no real reason other than "Lol how do I fight? Guies halp me!"
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-12-15 00:21
Quote from Kaeporo;1257335:
Gigashiy:
- Rewards? N/A for easy, gold/exp fail, items are decent
- Suggestion? Reduce health to perhaps 80% of its current value.
The end exp/gold/crusader is terrible. Also Girgashiy should have reduced defense/protection rather than hp.
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koishi-sempai wrote on 2014-12-15 00:29
The hard question is - how much of your character that you've grinded and paid so much for do you want to be ripped away to fix this? People balk at the idea of removing Crisis and Overture and Lullaby. It's quite possible you'd have to actually go back to the old stat cap, gut stat to damage ratios, gut reforges, gut special upgrades and just hack away and hack away at overall power level until content is actually challenging.
Alternatively, you could design new content that is challenging but not cheap, it's possible that might simply be scaled up versions of what we have now.
Finally, we can simply accept that once you hit a certain point, you'll steamroll all the content, and work mostly on not making that point come too early.
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Zeo wrote on 2014-12-15 01:06
The things I would change for Girgashiy is to make it have less defense/protection.
Also makes Easy raid always drop materials, while Normal drops more materials and Hard drops even more materials. It would balance out the lack of exp and gold.
I'd also make it so you'd get some Divinity exp for clearing the raid each time.
Solo: 1k Divinity Exp
Easy: 1.5k Divinity Exp
Normal: 2.5k Divinity Exp
Hard: 4k Divinity Exp
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Yoorah wrote on 2014-12-15 01:21
If you want a well-balanced game, you shouldn't play "free" to play games like Mabinogi. It is impossible to balance it by design, when you have cash-based power enhancements distorting the playing field.
If they work on balancing content for players who don't use cash based power-ups, then it will be boring for those who do use cash power-ups. If they balance content for players who do rely on cash based power-ups, then it won't be feasible for those who don't.
Once you understand this, debates about the game content being broken, balance issues and such, start to look pretty silly to you.
The only thing you can do is care less and try to enjoy the game for what it is.
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Zekkii wrote on 2014-12-15 02:17
[spoiler=Balance]
Quote from Kingofrunes;1257275:
To be honest, I've said this many times. Devcat dug their own grave when it comes to the Mabinogi combat system. By giving players unlimited power and potential they pretty much guaranteed that at some point no matter what content they throw at us, they will never ever be able to balance it properly.
I can't say I agree, for the first eight generations the full potential of a maxed character would still have somewhat of a challenge doing content provided, and that's true of content up until summon pets and until fighter/genesis if you had none (pre-reforges in NA).
I don't know why devCAT is so power happy with their updates, it goes beyond normal power creep and monetization/cash grabs. They talk of challenge an combat revamps, and then go straight onto to gouging damage for skills like final hit and the new bash skill. Given that it doesn't help monetization or prolong the game, it doesn't appear to benefit Nexon. Given that it doesn't help balance or make the game more interesting, at least in my opinion, I find it doesn't benefit the players either. I just don't think the devs understand what they're doing (and yes, having a new director every few days isn't helping). [/spoiler]
We're getting sidetracked here though, balance was never my aim. My point is that combat is devolving. While Gir may be a good raid, he represents the death of Mabinogi's former combat system. Something along the lines of another nail in an already bolted coffin. I'm just wondering how many people agree, and would like to see more traditional content like dungeons/shadow missions instead of the future raids we've been promised. I can fight a brick wall in dozens of games, but it's not what draws me to Mabinogi. Add in tank/damage/healer scenario and I REALLY feel Mabinogi is losing its originality. Keep in mind this is just my opinion.
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Slayerj wrote on 2014-12-15 02:34
Quote from Zekkii;1257421:
[spoiler=Balance]
I can't say I agree, for the first eight generations the full potential of a maxed character would still have somewhat of a challenge doing content provided, and that's true of content up until summon pets and until fighter/genesis if you had none (pre-reforges in NA).
I don't know why devCAT is so power happy with their updates, it goes beyond normal power creep and monetization/cash grabs. They talk of challenge an combat revamps, and then go straight onto to gouging damage for skills like final hit and the new bash skill. Given that it doesn't help monetization or prolong the game, it doesn't appear to benefit Nexon. Given that it doesn't help balance or make the game more interesting, at least in my opinion, I find it doesn't benefit the players either. I just don't think the devs understand what they're doing (and yes, having a new director every few days isn't helping). [/spoiler]
We're getting sidetracked here though, balance was never my aim. My point is that combat is devolving. While Gir may be a good raid, he represents the death of Mabinogi's former combat system. Something along the lines of another nail in an already bolted coffin. I'm just wondering how many people agree, and would like to see more traditional content like dungeons/shadow missions instead of the future raids we've been promised. I can fight a brick wall in dozens of games, but it's not what draws me to Mabinogi. Add in tank/damage/healer scenario and I REALLY feel Mabinogi is losing its originality. Keep in mind this is just my opinion.
The problem is... Haven't bosses almost always been easier than the stuff you've have to go through to get to them? They were either always easier, or borderline bullshit hard. Back in the day, getting to rundal boss room was a task. The boss? Lol so fucking easy to handle. Why? Because it's not hard to stay out of it's stomp range, and a well timed WM can knock it back for you to def walk away, and if it ever loads defense and starts walking like an idiot, you just smash the shit out of it. Counter? Lol hello free WM dmg~.
Just because mabi now has a raid style boss that's meant to be fought with a large group of people with roles, doesn't mean mabinogi is dead. What already meant that mabi 'is dead' was the fact that they haven't revamped the monsters in god knows how long to be able to properly combat us and be a challenge.
"But then people can just lullaby and rain!" Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is where the new AI and changes to monsters needs to come in place to have acceptations for that sort of stuff in some places.
The skills are fine, the unupdated content is not.
[SPOILER="Idk"]Also, onto your bit about challenge. Has this raid boss not been challenging in the least? Think of this. Me and my friend do not use reforges and I don't even touch enchants, idk about him. Yet after finishing g19, we had the stupid idea that we would be able to duo the raid boss on easy, with no real clue of how hard it would be. We did not even get it past 97%. We were so used to just steamrolling everything, that we thought we could take on this new content just like that and win easily, despite it being a raid. Think about that for a few minutes.
I can't even hardly beat the damn thing solo with my typical set up! It's the first thing in a LONG time that I haven't steamrolled or done very well at. (Dragon raids excluded because they're a world raid style boss (not done too well imo..) and to me that just screams "You an't taking this shit down with 3 people bro.")[/SPOILER]
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Lolguy12 wrote on 2014-12-15 03:14
Quote from Slayerj;1257425:
(Dragon raids excluded because they're a world raid style boss (not done too well imo..) and to me that just screams "You an't taking this shit down with 3 people bro.")[/SPOILER]
[video=youtube;T0NB6RLatp8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0NB6RLatp8[/video]
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BecomeMeguca wrote on 2014-12-15 03:58
Quote from Yoorah;1257397:
If you want a well-balanced game, you shouldn't play "free" to play games like Mabinogi. It is impossible to balance it by design, when you have cash-based power enhancements distorting the playing field.
If they work on balancing content for players who don't use cash based power-ups, then it will be boring for those who do use cash power-ups. If they balance content for players who do rely on cash based power-ups, then it won't be feasible for those who don't.
Once you understand this, debates about the game content being broken, balance issues and such, start to look pretty silly to you.
The only thing you can do is care less and try to enjoy the game for what it is.
Says the one who still dies in every SM I duo with!
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koishi-sempai wrote on 2014-12-16 03:22
Actually, I think we need to look at beat em up games (and we have similar content in Mabi). Look at a game like Dynasty Warriors. Our character in that game is MASSIVELY overpowered compared to every single character, or even a group of characters. However, especially on harder difficulties, you can get swarmed, you can get stun-locked if you don't manage the massive amounts of enemies coming at you. You're capable of mowing through hundreds and hundreds of enemies but if you don't watch yourself, you'll get worn down or you'll make a mistake and take damage or even die.
We have loads of AOE skills and loads of stun skills - that seems to be the ideal type of content to really test us. Stuff that we can manage with AOEs but we can't get it all, or it's strong enough to not blow up instantly. A lot of what needs to be done is build on existing content actually. We need 3+ new SMs for each board, and maybe 2+ more Lord Missions. We need a "Grandmaster/Nightmare/etc" difficulty for the existing SMs. We need rebalanced rewards so that each SM is worth running. I think a Sulfur Spider Nightmare that say, had passive defenses on Spiders + 2.5x HP and damage, coupled with maybe more aggressive/smarter corrupted Alchs could be pretty scary. Or a MA that had 5x to stats and spawned all in one huge mission leaving no time for breaks. Shit like that.
Quote from Zekkii:
I just don't think the devs understand what they're doing (and yes, having a new director every few days isn't helping)
.
This is the fundamental problem with Mabinogi. I don't know who the fuck is running DevCat but they're a joke. They've created a good game by dumb luck and don't really know how to build upon their previous success. That's why the updates are so hit or miss - there's no unifying vision.
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koishi-sempai wrote on 2014-12-29 17:57
Here's what I consider good content that could be a model for future fun and challenging content
Peaca Abyss except for Duke, he shouldn't respawn his mobs imo
Belvast Hostage Rescue
Abb Neagh Convoy to an extent
Forest Purification
Sulfur Spider
We just need stronger versions of those rather than shit like Duke and Gargash
EMA would be gre
I think Girgash is an unfun joke of a boss, pretty much fake difficulty embodied. Sure he's hard bit he's hard in the worst way.
Merrow needs to do more damage even if you couldn't drag her to the ledge.
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DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2014-12-29 20:14
This is what happens when the main focus is damage. My two cents.
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koishi-sempai wrote on 2014-12-29 21:11
First off, pretty sure this forum frowns on ban evasion.
Secondly, tanking is unviable in this game, always has been, always will be. Mabi has always been a "kill them before they kill you" game. It's just that our ability to kill them has far outstripped their ability to kill us for everyone over say, 4-6k or so (which is still not most players btw). Therefore we can either dial back our ability to kill them, or bump up their ability to kill us.
The reason why I mentioned those missions is because you can't really cheese them. If you fight in Belvast Hostage Rescue, you're getting swarmed by shit that can kill you immediately, and most players who aren't endgame can't really deal with 1v1, and you don't get time to set up a Act 7 > Act 4 > Blaze Combo like you can in MA or SWiz. It's true in Abyss as well though there are ways to make that even more intense. Scale that kind of gameplay up to scale with current endgame players and you'd have something going. Girgash is so far from what challenging content needs to be that it's no surprise that it's dead.
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DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2014-12-29 22:43
If you're referring to me sir,my ban was lifted last week.This account was created for fun.Can't evade something your not banned from. Why so serious brah?o3o
Will then, you solved the problem. Kill the boss before you get killed :D Brick Wall Solution = success. #EndThread
If anything, I think nexon should just split Mabinogi in half at this point. Want mabi to stay on its current path,current director(s) run that part. Other part gets proper fixing. I hope some accounts don't have issues connecting to improved servers, that'd be terrible :(