Mabinogi's Text Rendering

• Iyasenu wrote on 2015-10-28 13:31
  Also about the lag from peoples' names.
  Of course turning names off will get rid of lag from rendinger peoples' names, but...
  
  Why does holding Alt also reduce lag.
  Does it render peoples' names differently when it's in "alt" form or something?
  Or is it just a side effect of rendering just names and not titles/2nd titles.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-10-28 19:24

  Quote from Yoorah;1289095:

  Rendering a rect per char is a pretty standard thing

  A rect per written message or message area is more common and more efficient, when the game isn't just separating text entirely and having it written on a UI layer or something (which is better for situations where perspective won't be changing).
  
  Should I also bring up how the UI is done in 3D objects and hiding the UI speeds things up as well? Items are 3D objects with their item image as their texture, etc.
  
  
  

  Quote from Iyasenu;1289160:

  Or is it just a side effect of rendering just names and not titles/2nd titles.

  That bit. It'll trim like, what, 2/3rds of what needs to be done on average or something? Rough guess.
• Roflorz wrote on 2015-10-28 21:38

  Quote from Rydian;1289172:

  A rect per written message or message area is more common

  
  
  In what game? Any examples?
  
  --- Merged Double Post ---
  
  

  Quote from delight;1289156:

  No wonder when I was trying on my 3D glasses earlier it seems like all texts are floating on a layer of thin glass in front of everything,

  
  
  I'm not sure that's how 3d glasses work.
• delight wrote on 2015-10-29 04:55
  For nVidia 3D glasses, on a 120Hz LCD screen, it displays a frame for left eye for 1/120 second and then the next frame goes for right eye. The glasses also "covers" your each eye alternatively.
  
  To generate 3D images, it is done by software. Since human eyes determine distance from experience (how big an object is and how big an object should be), but that experience is coming from the disparity of images seen from left eye and right eye. The smaller the disparity, the further the item should be.
  
  You can have a feel of it by only opening your left eye, then alternate to right eye and observe how objects are seen by you, whether they are closed or further away.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-10-30 14:17
  So I went and tested a bunch of games, and wow was I wrong for modern games. Seems only old games did it, where they didn't expect huge resolution differences so they were just making a texture, and these also tended to have built-in debug menus that didn't give a full wireframe effect. Of course these games also had to worry more about performance than modern titles but that's another rant.
  
  Here's some modern games with wireframe hacked in, at least the ones that worked properly, 'cause of course I gotta' show it after all the testing.
  
  
  Audiosurf
  Not a single poly per letter... but it's obvious it's using pre-made textures, though, which skirts around the issue.
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/Q9zcIrAm.png]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/BjV2HfYm.png]

  
  
  
  Borderlands 2
  One of the titles that plays nicely, BL1 I'd have to mess with inis to get rid of the compositing and I was too lazy. I tried some other Unreal engine-based games, but they'd need work to disable the composite shaders too and I'm 2 lay-z 4 that.
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/OiHZ6gKm.png]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/BDl2MXum.png]

  
  
  
  Black Mesa
  I assume this method goes for other "Source" games as well, though the lack of frame clearing bothers me and is pretty evident going from poly to wireframe rendering. I wonder if there's some way I could force a frame clear or toggle the option.
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/2DfXF51m.png]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/CfAIvL1m.png]

  
  
  
  Fable
  This was one of the titles that gave me trouble, but I managed to get shots through the Steam overlay.
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/r9Pm4Kzm.jpg]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/u21yVsQm.jpg]

  
  
  
  Kerbal Space Program
  Wanted to get a Unity game in here too, of course.
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/j6wPnWxm.png]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/0y9uAKAm.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/ot3Mj0Lm.png]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/GamL6sdm.png]

  
  
  
  The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
  This game uses the old "store a snapshot of the game to pull up the menu on top of" technique so I'd have to exit and re-enter the menu after toggling modes. At least this doesn't cause the same issues as Ocarina of Time's implementation. I wonder if anybody will get this reference.
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/9PxM8LDm.jpg]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/ckIUxPSm.jpg]

  
  
  
  Torchlight
  II wouldn't play nice even with all the settings disabled, I guess it kept a "pass-through" shader running or something, probably why II lacks a "netbook mode".
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/xSAbBQAm.png]

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/W9KA92rm.png]

  
  
  
  I couldn't test as many games as I wanted to, some (like AC1) refuse to co-exist with other things on the screen while rendering wireframe, and others won't let me disable the shaders to get at an unprocessed rendering. Not to mention wasting half an hour waiting for Assassin's Creed 2 to simply start up only to have it install and update and reinstall Uplay 3 times just to tell me I need to make an account to play.
  
  I also wanted to pull up a bunch of really old 3D games to show how they did it for a comparison, but the only working general-executable wireframe hack I've got is for Directx and a lot of the older games were OpenGL.
• callback wrote on 2015-11-02 15:11

  Quote from delight;1289193:

  For nVidia 3D glasses, on a 120Hz LCD screen, it displays a frame for left eye for 1/120 second and then the next frame goes for right eye. The glasses also "covers" your each eye alternatively.
  
  To generate 3D images, it is done by software. Since human eyes determine distance from experience (how big an object is and how big an object should be), but that experience is coming from the disparity of images seen from left eye and right eye. The smaller the disparity, the further the item should be.
  
  You can have a feel of it by only opening your left eye, then alternate to right eye and observe how objects are seen by you, whether they are closed or further away.

  
  
  Which is dumb in itself and requires expensive glasses to sync with the refresh rate.
  
  Why does nobody have a monitor with alternating columns of polarized pixels so you can just enable 3D mode at 1280x1440 (or 960x1080 or anything else really) resolution per eye and let the refresh rate stay at 144Hz (or if Nvidia gsync it when a game dips below that)? It's relatively cheap (LCDs are already polarized), it just needs to be made in the alternating pattern. The naked eye would see no real difference with 3D off between that and a normal monitor, and it would work with any old pair of polarized 3D glasses for anyone in the room to look on. No expensive hardware needed.