Bash has a bug currently

• ironwoman wrote on 2015-11-18 06:24
  Not sure if I should post under heer or KR section, but I guess admins can do that for me.
  
  Anyway... the link
  
  So here's the story. Very few people may know about it, but I reckon most don't.
  
  So as players, bash being able to be executed two times before another skill "load" is a common knowledge. The OP asks if the limit of hits not affected by Vivace or att speed is a bug or not. The GM answers that it's not a bug, still consistent with our current knowledge.
  
  Here's the important part. The OP then proceeds to ask, "since you answered that Vivace and att speed does not affect skill speed, then wouldn't a dagger with att speed enabled be the same speed when bashing with a Dragon Fang?"
  
  The GM then answers, "As you stated, the skill execution speed of the two cases mentioned *should* be the same. However, for some weapons, there have been confirmed cases of attack speed applying to the skill not as intended".
  
  Basically, the GM confirmed that there is a bug with Bash.
  
  On a related note to Bash, there is always note about FH vs Bash.
  
  The common conception is that FH is better in terms of DPS than Bash...
  
  This guy did bunch of multiple checked calculations, under the assumption of using CRKs, and found out that when using CRK, you actually get 1.07x DPS when using Bash than FH. Of course, there's also utility side to FH, like TP, being able to crit more frequent because more hits, etc. He also made an excel file to help you understand the damage differences: http://www.mabinogi.pe.kr/bbs/zboard.php?id=tips&page=1&sn1=&divpage=2&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=10109. But of course, this story will be different when the 2nd hit thing is out. For this Bash situation, Devil Cat has two things to do: either make 2 hit an actually intended thing, or just make it 1 hit once and for all, at least that's my view.
  
  Thoughts?
  
  Edit: The OP had a misinterpretation. The 2nd hit is not necessarily a bug, however, rate of Bash being affected by weapon speed is.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-11-18 06:36
  Fix it. :sigh:
  
  Really, I'm not surprised this ended up as a bug. Of course Devil Cat's going to take months to announce it as a bug and not squash it.
• TheDarkPaladin wrote on 2015-11-18 06:39
  bash is too op, it it has bugs exterminate them, and reduce FH's damage bonus while you're at it
• Qnjo wrote on 2015-11-18 11:58
  I think it was pretty obvious. In-game descriptions never mentioned this "feature" and it works in a seemingly random way (i.e. doesn't always apply to slow weapons, in extreme cases it can even hit three times in a row), most likely affected by latency.
  
  I'll take a wild guess and say that devs:
  a) don't know how to fix it
  b) will turn it into an intended feature, just like Vales Shield.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-11-18 21:08
  There has been another statement from the OP, changing the stance on the issue a bit. Refer to the first post of the thread.
  
  2nd hit isn't necessarily a bug, but rate of Bash being affected by weapon speed is.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-11-19 00:11
  I'd rather use FH and suffer no dura loss for the duration, opposed to rapid-hitting with CRKs and repairing them lots... regardless of the potential DPS at max efficiency and all that jazz.
  
  That said, I do wish that they'd fix the speed application inconsistencies with magic and melee weapons, but for melee items speed is kept on the weapon as a byte value denoting which specific speed it is (slow, normal, fast, etc) so they'd need some conversions to an actual "speed", and "speed" also affects knockdown gauge input, they'd need to run some mass-conversion and change lots of things so that they get a granular speed system instead of a threshold issue (reminds me of frame rules in a TAS). Would also require changing anything that deals with weapon speed to work with an actual speed or delay value instead of an index too, and some of this code is probably the oldest crap still in the game engine.
  
  Also I wish they'd fix bash double-bashing or make it consistent, but... then you run into people complaining due to loss of precious, precious DPS, and you also run into logistical issues on fast versus slow weapons. Bash itself applies a very heavy fixed stun, would this change to stun according to the weapon speed? Would bash lock an enemy at first like Smash before the hit, or would it not and apply a longer stun than normal attacks when used with daggers for example?
• Esileruf wrote on 2015-11-19 01:04
  So, one should be able to bash equally and effectively with any speed of weapon instead of the double bash zone getting increasingly smaller at lower speeds?
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-11-19 01:09
  If what you're saying is basically any weapon should be able to bash at equal rates, then yes.
  
  Hence probably the reason why all of the celtic weapons besides CRK were made at slower than normal speed to begin with.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-11-19 02:31
  Why even have a melee speed system anyways then, unless the speed system is just a limiter on the number of rapid Bash hits you can do before the enemy gets knocked back?
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-11-19 02:32

  Quote from Rydian;1290436:

  Why even have a melee speed system anyways then, unless the speed system is just a limiter on the number of rapid Bash hits you can do before the enemy gets knocked back?

  
  
  Final Hit
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-11-19 03:24
  Did the GM specifically say what the double bash window was supposed to be? Long like Dagger, or short like Dragon Fang?
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-11-19 19:23
  He didn't mention that, but that Bash has a bug based on attack speed, and how the skill execution for dagger or dragon fang should not be different.
• Twin wrote on 2015-11-20 01:27
  Oooo,ok. I see what they're trying to do