Judgment Blade, Girg Souls, & Crit

• Rydian wrote on 2016-07-02 21:20
  Doing daily raids, people hit Girgashiy in his souls phase quickly enough to bug out the souls. Happens a lot, right? As usual some people stayed behind to use the souls for training because... well, a ton of invincible non-aggressive enemies bunched up is like better barrier spikes (since you can get up to 16 in an instance).
  
  So some people and I are sitting there spamming skills, and I'm testing out how good or bad the souls are for training various skills. I notice that I just can't seem to crit on them with Discord. I tried and tried and tried, but could not crit on them with Discord or any normal attacks with instruments. Meanwhile things like Sakura Abyss and Judgment Blade crit on them just fine.
  
  I know ninjas kills do, but I wondered if Judgment Blade also ignores prot for crit chances. So I stripped and potion poisoned myself down to 34% crit, and went into The Other Alchemists hard to see if I could crit on things. I tried Judgment Blade over and over, but I couldn't get a crit. Cleared the entrance hall and the first room (hitting all the orbs one at a time), no crits.
  
  So...
  
  A - Judgment Blade ignores crit reductions and I'm way unlucky with the test.
  B - Judgment Blade ignores crit reductions on Girg and his souls (not sure why souls too).
  C - Girg's apostle damage reduction is not protection and thus doesn't lower crit and souls can't be crit by normal attacks or Discord for some reason.
  D - ???
  
  Anybody know what's going on?
• Cookies wrote on 2016-07-02 23:20
  You can crit souls with non-protection ignoring skills if you have 201+ crit (230 for cap), souls have 100 effective protection
  Judgement blade not critting is just luck rip
• Rydian wrote on 2016-07-03 15:43
  Okay yeah I tried again and this time I crit three times in the entrance room.
  
  Stupid RNG.
• ironwoman wrote on 2016-07-03 20:03

  Quote from Cookies;1296597:

  You can crit souls with non-protection ignoring skills if you have 201+ crit (230 for cap), souls have 100 protection
  Judgement blade not critting is just luck rip

  
  
  First part, no. Second part, yes. Protection =/= effective protection.
• Cookies wrote on 2016-07-07 08:17
  Let's go with non-protection-ignoring-when-calculating-critical-skills then
• Cookies wrote on 2016-07-07 08:22

  Quote from ironwoman;1296611:

  First part, no. Second part, yes. Protection =/= effective protection.

  
  
  Please do enlighten on how this matters for criticals
• ironwoman wrote on 2016-07-07 19:32

  Quote from Cookies;1296663:

  Please do enlighten on how this matters for criticals

  
  
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats/Protection
  
  Your true crit is calculated by this: (Your crit) - (enemy's effective protection)*(2). And no, don't say "But wiki says protection affects it!" because that shit is outdated.
  
  
  Either you're not aware that 100 prot =/= 100 effective protection, as only 63% of the damage will get reduced, or you don't know the formula change, or both. Regardless, best to stay informed when it comes to these matters.
  
  Not sure if souls use the protection as their damage reduction or if they have their own thing, but if it is indeed protection, the crit you stated is right, but the reasoning is wrong.
• Rydian wrote on 2016-07-07 21:16
  So where's the proof/numbers about how enemy protection works now?
• ironwoman wrote on 2016-07-08 00:46

  Quote from Rydian;1296675:

  So where's the proof/numbers about how enemy protection works now?

  
  
  Early Enlightenment test 1
  
  Early Enlightenment test 2
  
  Early values at work
  
  Working towards a formula
  
  As for how crit works, I would have to dig through archives even more, but on a Korean hub that has is composed of many more people willing to do and calculation all say the same thing about how the protection, effective protection and crit works.
  
  Like, honestly, there really shouldn't even be a debate about how protection, effective protection, and crit works at this point, this is people just being ignorant now.
• Rydian wrote on 2016-07-08 01:18

  Quote from ironwoman;1296680:

  this is people just being ignorant now.

  Posts stuff in a foreign language, insults people for not understanding it.
  
  Mm hm.
• ironwoman wrote on 2016-07-08 01:41
  That wasn't directed at you, nor was I criticizing that people are not understanding the sources I put up. It was directed at people who keep saying crit = your crit - prot * 2. It's been years now, people who have been at least playing since the Enlightenment update really should know this.
  
  The problem is believing the misinformation when the correct information is readily available from NA sources (Wiki's crit section). They don't have to look the sources I posted as the translated information is already there, I only linked those sources because those are the original tests. The crit section (the part of Wiki that had the correct info) even comes before the Defense/Prot section (the one that was false) so I'm honestly not sure how people are getting all the wrong information.
• Cookies wrote on 2016-07-08 18:53
  I see I see, thanks for that. So basically right now it's [effective protection that is shared with actual damage reduction] instead of [the plain protection number shown].
  
  You're able to crit souls starting from 201% crit though, I hope you understand what I tried to say.
• ironwoman wrote on 2016-07-08 20:25
  Yes, 201% is right. But again, not for the reasons you originally stated.
• Rydian wrote on 2016-07-10 16:25

  Quote from ironwoman;1296683:

  It was directed at people who keep saying crit = your crit - prot * 2.

  Right, it's not protection.
  It's protection.
  
  The difference between the two is phrasing and honestly seems pedantic. Which is where the confusion comes from. All in favor of changing it to "damage reduction" everywhere?
  
  That said... Where are these numbers coming from? Again, serious question. The original numbers. You know, so if there's an actual source that's legit we can go fill it out for monsters.
• Lukshad wrote on 2016-07-10 19:29
  I honestly agree with changing *protection* to 'damage reduction'. Having two separate with the same name is confusing, and even if you call it 'effective protection' it's still confusing and/or easily missed as opposed to 'damage reduction'.
  
  So if I've read all of this correctly, we're doing 'damage reduction' x's 2 and subtracting that from our critical chance? So the player base actually has a much shorter ceiling to aim for than what we've thought all of these years?
  
  If so, that's pretty kickass.
  
  P.S. How do you italicize words here? D: