[video=youtube;GscviP0CkW8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GscviP0CkW8[/video]
At first, I attack the enemy when it has defense loaded. This is to show two things.
1 - The enemy is much, much stronger than I am.
2 - Using the wrong skills at the wrong time can make things take a turn for the worse.
After that, I actually attempt to beat the enemy, here's a notable list of my actions and decisions.
0:55 - I open with Smash so that it can't immediately retaliate, since Smash has a high damage multiplier and forces a knockback.
0:57 - I load Counter because I expect that the enemy will come back to attack me.
0:59 - Seeing that the enemy loaded Smash itself, I go cancel Counter and run up to it to do a normal attack.
1:01 - Normal attacks cancel Smash, so I get a combo off on the target.
1:03 - I back away to give myself time to see what the enemy is doing if it decides to attack me.
1:08 - The enemy is loading Counter, so I use Icebolt to deal a few hits of damage, knock it out of that and goad it into attacking me.
1:22 - The enemy is likely going to attack be after that, so I load up Defense to prepare to block the attack that I think is coming.
1:25 - The enemy hits my Defense, stunning it and letting me gbet a combo of skills off.
1:30 - My Assault Slash lands me right next to the enemy with a recovery period, so I load Counter to be safe.
1:34 - The enemy triggers Counter, putting it into cooldown. So I load Icebolt to stun and hurt the enemy a bit to give it time to cool down in case I need it again quickly.
1:37 - I back away a bit as well to give myself time to judge the enemy's moves.
1:40 - The enemy is running towards me with no skill loaded, so I load Defense to block it.
1:42 - With the enemy's attack blocked by Defense again, I retaliate.
The process basically continues until the enemy finally dies, despite being much stronger than my character.
Notice any sort of pattern? Most of my actions take into account what the enemy is doing (their positioning/timing/skills), and many of my actions are reactions that are capable of preventing the enemy from taking specific action (or turning it against them).
I'd love to see a breakdown like this of normal combat in another game that's supposedly more tactical... because I'd love to play a game where you have to react like this (that's not broken in as many ways as Mabinogi is).
Tera was one of the ones I played in the hopes for combat like Mabi's, but in the end it was typical MMO combat, just with attack areas instead of auto-hit attacks. Don't get me wrong, it was smooth, but there was little to no interplay between enemies and players. We couldn't influence and stop eachother like this.
One hard thing to deal with in MMOs is progression.
When you're OP, you don't have to care about the little things anymore. This is true of most games. In Castlevania games going back through the entry rooms I don't even bother to dodge or use any MP because there's no need to. I take minimal damage from attacks and most things I do will kill the enemy by that point.
How do you handle that in MMOs? If you can one-shot an enemy, tactics vanish, do you just prevent players from getting strong enough to one-shot things? That's why a lot of MMOs have such limited character growth, I feel.
Gear is debatable, but some skills are definitely OP. Lullaby and Bash being big ones nowadays. They're broken, they break the game's combat system to the point where Lullaby doesn't even work in the new-hardest dungeon (so that it's not a cakewalk). That's a balance issue though, nore a core issue, and it could be fixed if the devs would just fix it.
Show me why.
Never had a debate before? I'm asking for proof of your claims, if you can't back your claims then retract your claims.
Boss fights aren't my main concern though, because they're generally unique by design. Even Runescape has boss fights where you need to follow specific tactics and there's unique attacks everywhere now (Arax and Telos for example), despite normal combat falling into my original line of using skills in a set order for best DPS. In fact, the game's most-used combat mode is literally the mode that uses skills in a set order for you.
This is why I don't really want to discuss bosses or raids, because that's an easy cop-out on both sides. Games with boring by-the-number standard combat (like Runescape) can have crazy raids bosses, but they're individual instances and not indicative of the normal daily gameplay experience. I want to see a game that has tactical combat at the core, from the start, pervading the game.
Also, Mabinogi has that kind of stuff now too. Bosses of the Abyss/Phantasm dungeons as well as Girgashiy require players to react to their skills to survive/win. So saying other games have this in bosses doesn't automatically put them above Mabinogi.
If I look up a video myself, I don't get a proper breakdown and comparison, and I can't discuss the content with you the way I could if you made it yourself. If I'm unfamiliar with a game, how am I supposed to break down what is going on in normal combat?
"Oh that guy uh, sparkled a bit and then the monster-thing died? Wait he's reviving the monster thing, are they on the same side? Did something else kill the monster? Is blue gas good or bad to walk into? Was that attack strong? Why did he only do it once? Is it a cooldown or is it expensive? Why did he try to kick it in the junk? Why did the other people laugh when it didn't work, was it supposed to, is it a low chance to not work?"
Ill post a vid at the end of this post from a currently farmable instance that is pretty casual at this point but was "recently" released for the game. I just want to point out a few things first before I do. First, what you posted was basically an extremely low level character using 0 equips and an incredibly basic weapon along with the most basic of close combat skills at their disposal against an incredibly basic AI. This is an incredibly unrealistic situation as no one is going to be in that situation willingly in normal circumstances but I'm going to assume the point you were trying to make was the reaction based combat that mabi seems to have. While this is all fine and well I would like to point out that anyone can be lazy as all hell in that situation and basically spam windmill or counter until the mob ends up dying, though Im guessing one of the other points you were trying to make is that if you were in that situation but also wanted to create the most optimal damage dealing while not dying that you could it can turn interesting. In that specific situation with those limited abilities and stats yes it can, however in regards to the majority of the game that situation really wont happen MOST of the time. Now im guessing one of your points was also that it COULD happen and that since the basis and possibility were there that your point can stand. This can be true, but the fact that the game is beyond repair in the sense that skills and gear and stats allow you to bypass that ENTIRE basis to me makes your point moot. Sure if you strip away basically 99% of the content of mabi it has an interesting combat system but when you put it all back together all you get is nuking and set up.
Now perhaps our definitions of "tactical" are a bit different in terms of gameplay. I like a game that challenges me through mechanic based combat and real time reaction to situations that can go almost anywhere at a moments notice. I also like a game where even though you have a clear set goal in mind and a specific job to do, you have a lot of freedom and space to both accomplish that job and goal and other things along the way. The way FFXIV (sorry for using this game so much its what im most familiar with in this situation) works is that fights have you as a specific role (tank, dps, healer) and as long as you fulfill your duties in that role and perform well enough you can clear the content you are playing. Thats the basic element to combat in FFXIV, however on top of that it allows you to go above and beyond that by optimizing what you do and how you do it. For instance, as a healer your job is to heal right? Well theres instances where you wont really have to heal at the time, and then what do you do... Well you can switch over to your Cleric stance which transfers your stats temporarily into the damage dealing variant and start attacking the mobs or boss. This allows both tanks and healers to go above and beyond their basic roles and step into the domain of a dps. Now the point of me saying this all is because you cant just do one or the other the entire time, you have to make split second decisions based on the current state of the party and the fight if you want to even think about turning on your cleric stance or going out of your tank stance because you could end up wiping the party. This is called optimizing your dps. This also applies to dps but in a way thats more heavily focused on the actual dps aspect since they just have to do their jobs BETTER than they are at the time. It's not like you are going to be fighting a dummy that does nothing, you have to deal with mechanics AND dodge aoes WHILE dealing as much damage to the boss as you can and fulfilling your role. One mistake by one party member can end up wiping the entire party and causing everyone to have to restart from the beginning.
In the end what I'm trying to get at is, its enjoyable to do a fight that has you dealing with the mechanics of the fight itself, the phase shifts of the boss, the mechanics of your skills and how they actually work, and putting that all together in a dps optimization. In the end for FFXIV gear just helps some, it doesnt make you invincible or able to one shot the bosses. It doesnt allow you to ignore mechanic that are designed to kill you in a single hit, or ignore mechanics designed to reduce your overall dps. All gear does is give you a slight edge and thats how it should be in the end.
Heres a video of the fight I mentioned earlier, I'm not in it as I havent streamed or recorded video in a long time and I have no idea who these people are but it gets the point across. The combat in FFXIV is so much deeper than simply doing your job, its all about optimizing your skill usages and not wasting time or doing nothing when you could be doing something.
P.S. I didnt watch the video because I've farmed this fight and know it through and through so if theres something wrong with it do tell.
[SPOILER="vid"][video=youtube;3QJQO-age44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QJQO-age44[/video][/SPOILER]
P.P.S Its 5 am and im tired, if i misinterpreted something or went off rambling when I shouldnt have forgive me.