What to rank on my Giant?

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Meron wrote on 2010-09-11 20:55

I just started EU Mabi and wondered what to rank on my giant to increase my Windmill damage.

I decided to get Windmill r1 first then Combat Mastery/Critical Hit r1.

So what should I rank after that to increase my str? Which skills have a good str/ap or dex/ap ratio (for Balance later on) ? I know about Refine so no need to talk about that skill^^

Edit: Also what Trans skills should I rank first?
Shirayuki wrote on 2010-09-11 21:02

After Refine, max out production mastery for easy but sorta AP intensive dex, and then maybe start weave and playing instrument. And, you might wanna work on Carpentry for str. I think you might wanna max full swing for trans first, since the damage is gasmic :p
Meron wrote on 2010-09-11 21:07

But when start Refine? lol and I'd do PM right after Refine anyway but well yeah so far I got nothing ranked high (r7 WM xD and rB CM)
Started EU Mabi 2 days ago and shouldn't I increase my str before working on dex?

Maybe Stomp after CM/Crit? +31 str/stam and also +40 str master title
Zid wrote on 2010-09-11 21:16

For Combat, if you can access -CP enchants easily, I'd go with Smash for its sheer power use in combat, since that's a staple skill for any Giants. If you don't have easy access to -CP items, then you might need to rank Stomp early (since it has CP required attacks/kills) for some Str and the +40 Str title you get on r1 mastery.

Carpentry gives a lot of Strength for AP, and Weaving is the same for Dexterity to AP, but both are Life skills, and generally more difficult than Refining (Do that first as success rate is actually a bad thing for Refining until r1 to mastery). Also, if you like the damage of Full Swing (which is a lot of people) and plan to get a Battle Hammer/Broad Axe spirit weapon, I suggest ranking that first. Otherwise, feel free to rank Daemon or Life of Physis first.
Meron wrote on 2010-09-11 21:21

I think I'll go with Daemon and Life of Physis first since I'm sure it will take some time till I get a Broad Axe(Planing to ego one)
and like I said I want to increase my windmill damage since Smash I don't use when I'm lvling later I'll rank it of course but right now just planing to get a lot of str for low AP and get enough dex to use Iron Maces (Warhammers after finishing all Str giving skills in Combat Tab + Carpentry)
Arsik wrote on 2010-09-11 21:31

Go for Full Swing before Life even if you aren't going to have access to a Broad Axe. Even with a stock Warrior Axe, at R9+ Full Swing, the damage becomes noticeably awesome. You can choose to go for Daemon before Full Swing if you so choose, but I would recommend getting at least RB Daemon, because at that point, you'll have enough Balance to have 80% no matter what weapon you pick up. Any rank after RB will mostly be for looks.

And I personally would go for Stomp or Throwing Attack after finishing WM. The Str and SP helps alot, and when G12 comes around, Throwing Attack becomes more of a pain to rank than it currently is, so if you cap it now, then you only have to deal with it for 5 ranks instead of 15. After Stomp and Throwing Attack are mastered/capped, train Charge to R6. This will probably be your main range attack, since 10 SP isn't that much, and you can use the skill anytime, as compared to a Human/Elf, who need a shield, thus diminishing the effectiveness of the skill. Once you got your main combat skills out of the way, I would say either rank IB to R9 just for the charge speed decrease for a quick range attack for when Charge is in Cooldown/Monster has HS. Crit is something that becomes annoying to actively train after R6, so that's one of those skills that you should rank as soon as it's able to be ranked.
Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-11 21:55

Stats and skills lists the stats provided by each skill, the AP requirement and the AP to stat ratio. Its very useful. Effective melee requires strength and high balance. Once windmill and refine have been maxed, focus on those alongside your basic combat skills. Things like defense/counterattack are largely useless in combat. Save those until you have enough max damage to tank effectively.

Savage Beast lists various aspects of the Giant transformation. Savage Beast is lackluster compared to Paladin/Dark Knights, imo. Focus on your strengths and max Full Swing. While I have zero experience with Giants, the following seems logical.

Life of Physis: r1
Giant Full Swing: r1
Daemon of Physis: r5
Shield of Physis: r5
Daemon of Physis: r1
Shield of Physis: r1
Heavy Stander: r1
Spell of Physis: r1
Natural Shield/Mana Deflector: r1
Arsik wrote on 2010-09-11 22:14

Quote from Kaeporo;152419:
Stats and skills lists the stats provided by each skill, the AP requirement and the AP to stat ratio. Its very useful. Effective melee requires strength and high balance. Once windmill and refine have been maxed, focus on those alongside your basic combat skills. Things like defense/counterattack are largely useless in combat. Save those until you have enough max damage to tank effectively.

Savage Beast lists various aspects of the Giant transformation. Savage Beast is lackluster compared to Paladin/Dark Knights, imo. Focus on your strengths and max Full Swing. While I have zero experience with Giants, the following seems logical.

Life of Physis: r1
Giant Full Swing: r1
Daemon of Physis: r5
Shield of Physis: r5
Daemon of Physis: r1
Shield of Physis: r1
Heavy Stander: r1
Spell of Physis: r1
Natural Shield/Mana Deflector: r1

Logical, yes, but Full Swing at letter ranks is really no more than a combo extension, even if you get that extra 25 max damage from having R1 Life compared to RF Life. As I said, the damage isn't really noticeable until R9. While yes, the way that Full Swing is set up with percentages, it could be devastating at later ranks, but while starting out on Savage Beast, the extra damage isn't that noticeable. So I would say this will probably be a better "build" for Savage Beast:

Daemon of Physis: RB
Giant Full Swing and Life of Physis: R9
Giant Full Swing: R1
Life of Physis: R1
Daemon of Physis: R5
Shield of Physis: R9
Daemon of Physis: R1
Shield of Physis: R1
Spell of Physis: R1
Heavy Stander: R1
Mana Deflector: R1
Natural Shield: R1

Reason being: Again, at RB Daemon, you'll have 80% Balance, no matter what weapon you use, which is always a plus. Then alternate ranking both Full Swing and Life until R9, so that the little extra damage from Life will be put to good use with the now noticeable damage output from Full Swing. I then went with Full Swing because it's your big gun, and will always be your big gun. You'll do more damage with a bigger gun than with bigger ammo. After Full Swing, you now finish Life, so that your big gun can use the big ammo. Daemon to R5 for the extra damage from ranking the skill, and then Shield to R5 for the extra HP. R1 for both the extra damage and the awesome looking Beast Lord, followed by R1 Shield for the nice 800 HP boost. Spell comes after Shield, because that's 12% Critical. Since the biggest flaw I have with Full Swing is that it doesn't ignore Protection when calculating criticals, you can use all the Critical you can get, especially if you live in HM SMs. Then come your Passive Shields, with HS taking higher priority because you'll be hit with melee more often then the other two combined.
Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-12 04:17

Quote from Arsik;152428:
Logical, yes, but Full Swing at letter ranks is really no more than a combo extension, even if you get that extra 25 max damage from having R1 Life compared to RF Life. As I said, the damage isn't really noticeable until R9. While yes, the way that Full Swing is set up with percentages, it could be devastating at later ranks, but while starting out on Savage Beast, the extra damage isn't that noticeable. So I would say this will probably be a better "build" for Savage Beast:

Daemon of Physis: RB
Giant Full Swing and Life of Physis: R9
Giant Full Swing: R1
Life of Physis: R1
Daemon of Physis: R5
Shield of Physis: R9
Daemon of Physis: R1
Shield of Physis: R1
Spell of Physis: R1
Heavy Stander: R1
Mana Deflector: R1
Natural Shield: R1

Reason being: Again, at RB Daemon, you'll have 80% Balance, no matter what weapon you use, which is always a plus. Then alternate ranking both Full Swing and Life until R9, so that the little extra damage from Life will be put to good use with the now noticeable damage output from Full Swing. I then went with Full Swing because it's your big gun, and will always be your big gun. You'll do more damage with a bigger gun than with bigger ammo. After Full Swing, you now finish Life, so that your big gun can use the big ammo. Daemon to R5 for the extra damage from ranking the skill, and then Shield to R5 for the extra HP. R1 for both the extra damage and the awesome looking Beast Lord, followed by R1 Shield for the nice 800 HP boost. Spell comes after Shield, because that's 12% Critical. Since the biggest flaw I have with Full Swing is that it doesn't ignore Protection when calculating criticals, you can use all the Critical you can get, especially if you live in HM SMs. Then come your Passive Shields, with HS taking higher priority because you'll be hit with melee more often then the other two combined.

1040% of 100 damage is 1040 damage.
600% of 180 damage is 1080 damage.

The first example is r1 Giant Full Swing used with 100 maximum damage and a two-handed weapon. The second example is r1 Smash used with r1 Life of Physis, 100 maximum damage and a two-handed weapon. You'll additionally gain 200 will (20 critical) and 600 stamina. The improved damage, critical and stamina will positively affect all of your melee skills.

That's why I stated that Life of Physis was the logical path...at least at his level.

At around 150 maximum damage, Full Swing will deal more damage but only if the player can still critical opponents without the added will.

I also disagree about ranking Daemon of Physis. If a player doesn't have the balance to support a specific weapon outside of transformation, the player shouldn't be wielding that weapon while transformed. It's not a strong argument, in my opinion.

...Daemon of Physis sucks. 392 level-ups for 18 max damage.
Arsik wrote on 2010-09-12 13:34

I don't see why you think that a person shouldn't keep a spare set of weapons for use when transformed. Is it any different than when people made Goddess Obsidian Daggers/Wooden Swords, and only used them for when fighting bosses/in sticky situations where they're also transformed? I'm sure that you use more than just your Ego Crossbow and the Crossbow that you're probably proffing for repair for your ego, so why is it so bad to carry extra weapons?

I have a Battle Hammer ego, and I never use it outside of Transformation, because while it's Smash is slightly stronger than my dual wielded stock Maces, the overall damage output isn't as great as the Maces. However, when I'm transformed, even when I only had R9 Full Swing (I also had RB Daemon so I could reach my 80% balance), I would switch over to a stock Battle Hammer (proffing it naturally) to fight while transformed. I also have a Claymore and a Vales Shield for when I feel that I need to be a tank for a bit. And let's not forget my Knuckles that I use for when I go to fight a Field Boss. Even on my Human, I dual wielded Gladii outside of trans, and when I transformed I switched to my 222 Broad Swords, because I can now utilize them. So wouldn't the fact that I could reach that 80% balance in trans mean that I should welcome low balanced weapons with a high maximum attack, since now they aren't just rotting away in my inventory waiting for when I can at least get 50% Balance naturally to use them effectively?

And Stamina is a moot point. I haven't run out of it when I'm transformed, and I spam skills that normally drain my 200 SP, along with my Full Swing, which uses up more than three times what my other skills use up. And sure, the extra damage from Life would be useful for melee combat, but considering that we're planning how he should rank his skills, I doubt he has R1 Smash. And while Smash is easy to train, especially as a Giant, it's still going to take some time before he gets it. Can't argue against the critical, especially considering Full Swing does calculate the opponent's Protection for dealing crits.

And to counter your claim of Daemon of Physis sucks after RB (because trust me, easy 80% is extremely helpful, especially since you only need 47 levels to get it, meaning two Rebirths at the most), we got some of the best looking transformations in the game. Looking sexy is more than enough reason to rank it. If you forget, this game's official name is Mabinogi, but in reality in the end it'll end up to most players being Fashionogi, not to mention that the mentality of our servers is if you don't have R1 in your Transformation skill, then you're a noob and should be looked down upon and mocked at every turn, even if you are R1 in every other Transformation skill.
Crimmy wrote on 2010-09-12 15:22

Quote from Arsik;153127:

And to counter your claim of Daemon of Physis sucks after RB (because trust me, easy 80% is extremely helpful, especially since you only need 47 levels to get it, meaning two Rebirths at the most), we got some of the best looking transformations in the game. Looking sexy is more than enough reason to rank it. If you forget, this game's official name is Mabinogi, but in reality in the end it'll end up to most players being Fashionogi, not to mention that the mentality of our servers is if you don't have R1 in your Transformation skill, then you're a noob and should be looked down upon and mocked at every turn, even if you are R1 in every other Transformation skill.

This is somewhat true. A fellow guildie of mine has R1 Full Swing but is still a Savage. He LOOKS nooby and quite a few people think he is but he isn't at all. It's pretty funny.

But I guess Mari may be different. We have a few giant noobs who are Beast Lords and a few giant "pros" who are still Slugger so I think the mentality isn't the same. I've yet to experience any criticism for being a Slugger and ranking other things instead of going for R1 Trans right away. Although I have had people suggest I go Lord already because I'm taking forever. Oh and then there's the whole "u hav fbolt so u must b giant maeg!" thing.
Cryosite wrote on 2010-09-15 10:10

If dark knight weren't so freaking weird, I'd probably be doing something similar in my own trans skill rankings. Hands of chaos for dex=balance would be kind of nice to let me use 222-broads while in trans if I so chose, but body of chaos gives balance and STR... so that's the more useful trans skill. Once it's at rk1 (rk3 currently) then I may consider ranking hands a bit so that even if I get a low str roll, I still get good balance from 2/3rds of the trans skills (and awesome crit the other 1/3rd of the time from my already rk1 mind of chaos).

To OP, rank smash after you finish WM. You may not use it much now, that's because it's low ranked. Smash arguably one of the main reasons to play a giant. N+Smash is hax against single targets lacking HS.