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Magenera wrote on 2010-09-22 21:43
Quote from Virtue;163119:
"the truth is that if diversity was non-exsistant than nothing would ever get done."
That's kind of odd. Japan seems to 'get things done'. So does South-Korea -- The world's two leading consumer electronics manufacturers. And Europe seemed to 'get things done' well prior to multiculturalism.
"My point is that you don't gotta like it but you have to live with it."
That's just an appeal to the status quo, it's not an argument.
Japan, and Korea, wouldn't exist, with out them copying China. They wouldn't be the biggest electronic consumer, with the introduction, and advancement of the industrialization of the rest of the world. The world been mingling, you should read a history book, and see how we have taking ideas from around the damn world to see why that statement is true. If everything was the same, then nothing would be done, if everything was the same, there would be no change, if everything was the same, we wouldn't exist. Europe copies different culture and apply it to their own, the biggest example is the language. Latin roots, Germanic roots, and our character system, origins, predates around the middle-east. To be even more exact algebra and our number-system is Hindu-Arabic.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-09-22 21:49
Ah, I see your topic is on a worldly idea of diversity.
I cannot comment on it then.
I just believe that on a personal level, diversity is great. Sure, you can read textbooks on how a dedicated fisherman lives, but it will never compare to actually experiencing it there with him and learning from him and about his life.
Diversity allows us to better understanding one another. If there weren't any gays in one country, that country would probably be against homosexuality. Diversity allows us to be more open-minded and better equipped, as I said.
Knowing four languages is tons more useful than knowing just one. Can help you get more jobs, can help you communicate with a vast amount of different people, from different cultures. Diversity is a nice tool, be it social diversity or a diversity of political ideas.
Our numbers are Arabic, yet our letters are Latin/Roman. That's diversity right there.
And on a staff team, it is good to have people with different opinions, Virtue. That's what makes a government. Why have a staff team if it's just one person deciding the rules?
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Virtue wrote on 2010-09-22 21:50
Quote from Magenera;163145:
Japan, and Korea, wouldn't exist, with out them copying China. They wouldn't be the biggest electronic consumer, with the introduction, and advancement of the industrialization of the rest of the world. The world been mingling, you should read a history book, and see how we have taking ideas from around the damn world to see why that statement is true. If everything was the same, then nothing would be done, if everything was the same, there would be no change, if everything was the same, we wouldn't exist. Europe copies different culture and apply it to their own, the biggest example is the language. Latin roots, Germanic roots, and our character system, origins, predates around the middle-east. To be even more exact algebra and our number-system is Hindu-Arabic.
"Japan, and Korea, wouldn't exist, with out them copying China."
You're working against your own point of view now. Ideas can spread memetically quite easily without imported racial 'diversity'.
"The world been mingling, you should read a history book, and see how we have taking ideas from around the damn world to see why that statement is true. If everything was the same, then nothing would be done, if everything was the same, there would be no change, if everything was the same, we wouldn't exist."
Again, you're just proving my point in your defense against it. Racial homogeneity can facilitate the spread of ideas quite easily.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-09-22 21:53
What's so wrong with diversity then?
And on the white people comment.
Why? What's wrong with whites agglomerating amongst themselves? Are whites not allowed to voluntarily associate with each other and express their own cultural/racial norms?
I didn't mean to offend. I said "Thank goodness" because most of the schools in the United States (those in the Midwest, especially) are full of white people. Minorities are small percent of the population there.
It could be any race. African-American, Asian, Muslim. I wouldn't wanna go to a school where over 80% of the population is of one racial group. I like variety, I like diversity. With no diversity, I wouldn't exactly fit in. I'd feel like an outcast.
I just like variety. Who doesn't? That's why people like to travel-- to see new places, new people, new things.
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Magenera wrote on 2010-09-22 22:00
Quote from Virtue;163142:
"Having a diversity of opinions on a staff teams allows you to come up with balanced decisions."
No it doesn't. That's the reason we have capable managers. And not worker's cooperatives.
"If so, isn't it always to be better equipped with many different sorts of knowledges and tools to tackle the world head-on?"
Give firm examples of what sorts of 'knowledges' and 'tools' racial diversity enables. Real world examples that have real world positive impacts.
" Multiculturalism is always fantastic."
I'm sure the people of the Former Yugoslavia agree
"My school is not only full of white people (thank goodness)."
Why? What's wrong with whites agglomerating amongst themselves? Are whites not allowed to voluntarily associate with each other and express their own cultural/racial norms?
"I'd love to travel and explore different cultures. Be it a Nation as Western as France or a society as primitive as those tribes in the Amazon. No knowledge is too much knowledge. In fact, knowledge is power."
This doesn't really require mass immigration though. You can still trade with and learn about foreign cultures and races without importing millions of them to your own country.
"Diversity is knowledge. And knowledge is strength. Therefore, diversity is strength."
Non-sequitur fallacy.
What are the historical examples that show us that diversity is good? There are none. Back up that point.
"That hasn't just stop there, plants can have new properties just by breeding in with different plants and take upon there traits to become stronger. The entire ecosystem has survived by being diverse, and has been the reason for evolution."
That's just the hybrid vigor canard again. It's wrong because a diversity of genes by itself isn't a good thing, homogeneity of good genes is better than a diversity of mediocre ones.
Where do you think, that good gene came from, and how it became the dominant one? It pop up out of the blue,and suddenly every one has that same gene, stonger genes becomes dominate, when the environment calls for it. Also you want me to list my facts on how our culture mingle:
Gun powder: China
Algebra, and Western Numeric system: Hindu-Arabic
Pythagorem theory: Egypt, first to implement it, the guy who name it comes from just copy of them and called it his own.
Judaism: Might actually owe it religion, to the copy of Egyptian gods, or in this case their Sun god, who at several points has pop out as the one true god, and been denounce, saying that it is multiple not one.
The compast: china
Christianity, and Islam: Judasim
Does this fits the bill, or must I go on?
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Virtue wrote on 2010-09-22 22:08
@Phunkie
"And on a staff team, it is good to have people with different opinions, Virtue. That's what makes a government. Why have a staff team if it's just one person deciding the rules?"
But companies -aren't- run by democratic consensus, they're run by a board of directors setting policy and managers enforcing their own micro-policy. Sure, some many take ideas into account, but it's not as if a lower-rung employee can coerce a manager into accepting his decisions through a vote. So the comparison to modern democracy is false. It's more like a constitutional monarchy.
"What's so wrong with diversity then?"
It leads to greater discord. Higher violent crime rates if the immigrants are of low quality. Politics becomes less about actual policy and more about racial interest groups and so on.
@Magenera
"Where do you think, that good gene came from, and how it became the dominant one? It pop up out of the blue,and suddenly every one has that same gene, stonger genes becomes dominate, when the environment calls for it. Also you want me to list my facts on how our culture mingle:"
Except we've actively set up policies that bring about dysgenic ends.
Gonna stop replying now. Too tired for the day. Rest assured that I can refute all posts below me.
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Phunkie wrote on 2010-09-22 22:16
I think diversity is something worth achieving in the world.
Yes, there is greater discord in culturally diverse nations, but that's because people don't agree with each other. Sure, we will never be able to eradicate all crime from this world, but is that a good enough reason not to pursue being diverse?
It's like saying, love leads to heartbreak, therefore it's worthless. No, no. There will definitely be discord with diversity, but there will also be understanding and ideas taken and built upon from these cultural alliances. Magenera has obviously pointed out some of these.
The good transcends the bad.
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Shirayuki wrote on 2010-09-22 22:22
Without diversity, there would be no problems. No crazies. No minorities to hate. No one to blame. It would be a utopia of some sort, but I don't think it would be the ideal world for me. With no problems, there would be nothing to overcome. With nothing to overcome, all progress would cease... I think.
That's only my opinion though.
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abc33kr wrote on 2010-09-22 22:25
Quote from Shirayuki;163182:
Without diversity, there would be no problems. No crazies. No minorities to hate. No one to blame. It would be a utopia of some sort, but I don't think it would be the ideal world for me. With no problems, there would be nothing to overcome. With nothing to overcome, all progress would cease... I think.
That's only my opinion though.
Sadly, humans don't work that way. If all people on Earth were white, they would start picking out tiny things that might be different and begin to create faction. IT IS part of human nature to create factions.
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Magenera wrote on 2010-09-22 22:26
You place Diversity as a bad thing constantly, do realize that the world is gray. Nothing is just straight up good, and straight up bad, being the same is in fact worse, case in point, those bad genes that they are trying to rid off is the result of us staying the same, we had not gotten stronger on a genetic level, cause we been the same. If we had kept mingling most of the **** we are dealing with, would have been rid of. In fact, scientist fears, that if we encounter a new viral strain, we are going to be in a world of hurt, for our own immune system never needed to grow thanks to modern medicine. So I guess in your own statement, advances are just as equally bad, for they bring nothing no change, when kept as the dominant force.
Yet the thing that still surprise me is the fact that you have not realize that our culture adopts, the best aspect of another to make their own better. But I guess the education system has been nothing but fail, and bias anyway.
Quote from Shirayuki;163182:
Without diversity, there would be no problems. No crazies. No minorities to hate. No one to blame. It would be a utopia of some sort, but I don't think it would be the ideal world for me. With no problems, there would be nothing to overcome. With nothing to overcome, all progress would cease... I think.
That's only my opinion though.
You are talking about a perfect world, not a non-diverse world. We solve our problems by being diverse, not by staying the same, or we wouldn't exist. Evolution is a prime example, and so it history. On that note, a perfect world is a dead world.
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Magenera wrote on 2010-09-22 22:30
Quote from Shirayuki;163182:
Without diversity, there would be no problems. No crazies. No minorities to hate. No one to blame. It would be a utopia of some sort, but I don't think it would be the ideal world for me. With no problems, there would be nothing to overcome. With nothing to overcome, all progress would cease... I think.
That's only my opinion though.
You are talking about a perfect world, not a non-diverse world. We solve our problems by being diverse, not by staying the same, or we wouldn't exist. Evolution is a prime example, and so it history. On that note, a perfect world is a dead world.
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Athde wrote on 2010-09-22 22:35
Quote from Shirayuki;163182:
Without diversity, there would be no problems. No crazies. No minorities to hate. No one to blame. It would be a utopia of some sort, but I don't think it would be the ideal world for me. With no problems, there would be nothing to overcome. With nothing to overcome, all progress would cease... I think.
That's only my opinion though.
That's the point as to why it is important to have. If all progress ceased then where would we be? Don't forget that progress solves many problems, like we're making progress in Cancer, thanks to many people's DIFFERENT ideas.
A good point is music. Tell me, would you be happy if ALL music was rock? What if it was ALL techno?
As a world view, that would be hard to conceive into a mere idea. I mean if we all were the same, thought the same, that would sound ideal would it not? But then again if there weren't any problems, we would have no reason to invent anything, because the whole idea to inventing something is to solve a problem. Here's a short list...
Cars: Too many people, too much land for housing, too far too work place. If the problem wasnt even there why would we have even come up with it?
Computers: Communication. Aside from mating and reproducing, if we all thought alike why would we need to know/meet other people? You could easily hang out with somebody else and be just the same, since there is no diversity.
Now granted, maybe a few things could be invented such as videogames because we were bored. But on the same scale nobody would be able to make games because they would have nothing to make them from, except real life.
Lastly imagination. Imagination is practically diversity in of itself. I imagine different things from what anybody else on the world has because i'm diverse/different.
A revised statement, Without diversity, life would be boring as hell.
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psyal wrote on 2010-09-22 22:56
I'd say diversity and having a lack of it is just preference. Either will get you a result, and both can be good or bad, depending on what you want.
Some people like to have diversity, others like everything the same. Personally I like some diversity, but I don't try to force others to like it.
Currently the world could be said to be trying to increase diversity because of things in the recent past caused by people who were against it, and also because of people with strong prejudices. But who knows, something may happen to cause the world to suddenly be against it.
Either viewpoint is fine to have as long as you don't use it as a reason for being prejudiced or cruel.
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Chillax wrote on 2010-09-23 00:23
A united group of diverse people is strength, so people are stating the ideal when saying "Diversity is strength". Homogenous societies will inevitably change and diversify, so most people embrace diversity and seek to extract the good qualities of each race and culture. However, not all countries and the people within them have come to understand that, hence genocides and violent disputes. We can only hope that we are getting closer to the ideal, but it will take hundreds of years for that to become a reality.
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Zid wrote on 2010-09-23 00:34
I think Virtue's asking about how a diverse demography in a society (example would be the US) is better than a "pure" society, such as all-white.
I can state an example against the idea of non-diversity. It would make said non-diverse population hostile to outside groups, for the fear of corrupting dilution. In itself, hostility is bad news anyway. I don't think anybody wants a section of humanity to be grow this kind of fear of other races, and becoming hostile to them, to the point of homicidal intentions and actions.