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Jando wrote on 2010-10-14 09:07
And you would benefit from AR r1 more then investing the 60 ap into Crash shot since Crash will take a ridiculously long time.
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Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-14 09:16
I tried the metallurgy method for refine and I got up to rank 6 (metallurgy). But I just want to say it's not efficient at all for silvers. The drop rate of silvers was so low it took me a couple hours just to get one stack. Or even less than a stack. So brionac is a great way to save on the silvers, and at the cost of only a tiny bit of AP.
Anyways, AR is totally worth it and magnum is also highly useful. Plus Crash Shot is such an AP-eater that if you're looking to maximize range damage in a short amount of time, I don't really think CS is the way to go...
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December wrote on 2010-10-14 09:54
Yeah as most people said, just grind a little bit more for that +10 Dex from refine. Then you should look at some life skills if you really want AP:DMG efficiency. Weaving and Handicraft are a piece of pie for the first few levels.
Combat wise I would suggest you get Magnum Shot to R9 for reduce load time and 300%, I don't know how much you would use it but I find it very good for sniping or starting shot. After that cough up that last 60AP for AR. Then its up to you for Magnum to R1 or Crashshot depending which you prefer.
Oh and consider on investing some nice Crit/DMG boosting equips and what bow your using.
Good Luck :thumb:
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Byte wrote on 2010-10-14 10:31
Hmm.
What I did(In order of "ranged" skills/needed skills):
Rank 1 Range
Rank F AR
Rank A Mag(No Dex till 9)
Rank 1 Refining
Rank 1 Production
Rank 1 AR
Rank 1 Mag
Rank 3 Crit
Weaving, yet-to-be-done-cause-im-league of legends-whoring.
AR+Mag are important to do any sort of good damage, I almost hit 3k crits with Magnum, and find it useful for killing bosses.
Reason for weaving is there are some nice crossbow enchants I'd like to get my hands on.(AR & Mag + Crossbow + Enchants = Yummy you're dead!!)
You want production mastery for the stamina as AR and Mag take... a lot. I still get Stam failure.
There's my perspective on it though, Rank 1 AR does make a difference, but you need rank 1 refine.
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Jando wrote on 2010-10-14 11:18
Dont forget that crash shot ignores protection when calculating critical which is like the bain of archers existence. Even for the 490 ap your getting your money's worth 10 fold. Crash shot is also stronger then Magnum when in mobs of 6+, AR falls short in HM SMs due to the amount of protection they have but is useful for locking them. Magnum is a great opener but sadly for Humans that load time renders it to just that when not used in a combo.
Basically you can go Mag > AR or CS > AR which is what most people to and will do.
If your looking to increase damage get the current released ranged skills to r1 and refine to r1, then get support shot to r1 for that 18 or so dex then work on weaving, tailoring, etc for that yummy ap:dex ratio.
Work on Crash shot only if you're gonna use it like in rafting or SCC and other SM's alike.
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sakraycore wrote on 2010-10-14 16:42
a 500% magnum even as an opener is not really worth it (I use it still but I like to use smash or windmill as an opener more), because it just takes forever to load and forever to aim if you're a human. I can see that crash shot can almost fully replace magnum shot and arrow revolver will still be used because it's plain awesome.
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Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-14 20:31
Honestly, I don't think that rank 1 magnum takes forever to load at all. o_o It seems pretty fast to me. Although it does take a long time to aim. Magnum is pretty safe as an opener for me in rooms that have multiaggro, and it's useful to hit off half a monster's HP and then finish the rest with AR once that monster's aggroed. I also find the splash damage good for knockback sometimes, haha.
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sakraycore wrote on 2010-10-14 22:55
Well yes and no. 2 seconds may not seem like much but coupled with the insanely long aiming time (because if you're using it as an opener you're probably in a corner) it feels like forever. especially since elves can fire it off in 0.5 seconds and can zero shot relatively safely with mounted archery.
Edit: just noticed it's 1.5 seconds, eh coulda fooled me haha.
The other thing is it uses way too much stamina. I can't even tell which uses more stamina, windmill, arrow revolver, or magnum shot since they all eat away at stamina like nothing.
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Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-14 23:33
Quote from sakraycore;184487:
Well yes and no. 2 seconds may not seem like much but coupled with the insanely long aiming time (because if you're using it as an opener you're probably in a corner) it feels like forever. especially since elves can fire it off in 0.5 seconds and can zero shot relatively safely with mounted archery.
Edit: just noticed it's 1.5 seconds, eh coulda fooled me haha.
The other thing is it uses way too much stamina. I can't even tell which uses more stamina, windmill, arrow revolver, or magnum shot since they all eat away at stamina like nothing.
From my observations, definitely AR.
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Vanof wrote on 2010-10-15 00:32
Rank A/9 is a great rank to cap Crash Shot.
At rank A there's a load time reductions, and rank 9 there a large splash damage increase(25%) as well as the enemy cap goes from 3->4.
Rank A only takes 90 AP, and rank 9 only takes 112.
Crash Shot is a very useful skill, but it is not your answer for everything. AR is still necessary for mob control, and Magnum is still necessary for lone enemies with higher protection.
Keep in mind it's a very expensive skill to use. Not only for it's 490 AP cost, but for it's 15 stamina and mana use at r1.(only 7/8 at rA/r9)
With a long-range ego bow, it's also easily spammable(for humans), rather than needing an AR or magnum conjunction.
Do consider ranking weaving, playing instrument, and first aid. They all give great dex bonuses, and first aid is all books. Of course finish refine first, bla bla.
r9 is a great rank to leave CS, imo.
Rank 5 AR is all that you need for infinite spammability, but r1 AR simply kicks ass. Do that 60 AP as soon as you can if you'll be using AR a lot. Which, you probably will if you're not doing HM dungeons all the time.
Rank critical, as well.
Priority is up to you, you should pick out how much to rank things based on how often you use them and need them.
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Jando wrote on 2010-10-15 02:48
Quote from Vanof;184697:
Rank A/9 is a great rank to cap Crash Shot.
At rank A there's a load time reductions, and rank 9 there a large splash damage increase(25%) as well as the enemy cap goes from 3->4.
Rank A only takes 90 AP, and rank 9 only takes 112.
Crash Shot is a very useful skill, but it is not your answer for everything. AR is still necessary for mob control, and Magnum is still necessary for lone enemies with higher protection.
Keep in mind it's a very expensive skill to use. Not only for it's 490 AP cost, but for it's 15 stamina and mana use at r1.(only 7/8 at rA/r9)
With a long-range ego bow, it's also easily spammable(for humans), rather than needing an AR or magnum conjunction.
Do consider ranking weaving, playing instrument, and first aid. They all give great dex bonuses, and first aid is all books. Of course finish refine first, bla bla.
r9 is a great rank to leave CS, imo.
Rank 5 AR is all that you need for infinite spammability, but r1 AR simply kicks ass. Do that 60 AP as soon as you can if you'll be using AR a lot. Which, you probably will if you're not doing HM dungeons all the time.
Rank critical, as well.
Priority is up to you, you should pick out how much to rank things based on how often you use them and need them.
Crash shot's MOB control is better then AR's since you will crit easier (Only 30% crit needed), splash causes no aggro (Skeles act differently) and the Mana use is just to balance this god-tier skill. With skillful pet play you can load another shot of CS right after another, especially if you abuse the corners in dungeons.
However rA/r9 are great half way points for capping Crash shot which I might do to work on life skills.
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Vanof wrote on 2010-10-15 02:53
AR's rapid fire ability makes it a very safe skill which is perfectly suited to dealing with multiple targets; with Heavy bows I can juggle up to three targets at once. Crash Shot's critical ability has absolutely nothing to do with it's mob control ability.
r5 is also a good stopping point, taking 230/490 AP.
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Jando wrote on 2010-10-15 03:08
Quote from Vanof;184905:
AR's rapid fire ability makes it a very safe skill which is perfectly suited to dealing with multiple targets; with Heavy bows I can juggle up to three targets at once. Crash Shot's critical ability has absolutely nothing to do with it's mob control ability.
r5 is also a good stopping point, taking 230/490 AP.
Agreed but you do want to aim for that r1. ooooo I have to try juggling 3 monsters at once once I get r1 AR. But then again, imagine HM dungeons and SM's who all have crazy protection, AR and Mag WILL never crit them unless you have a crazy high crit rate which is tedious and expensive to obtain. Crash Shot only requires 30% which makes it ideal for any situation in hardmore dungeons as an opener and as a main attack. I'm pretty sure you can find 2-3 seconds to load another Crash when smart pet play/helpful party members, etc.
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Vanof wrote on 2010-10-15 03:26
High crit is not tedious nor expensive to obtain, don't get ahead of yourself.
You'll need a preferred 80-100ish crit rate in HM missions, to crit most typical mobs. That's almost achievable by a good Wing Bow and stiff tail cap alone with a crit title.
Sharp and thief enchants are all cheap, and can give a good bonus to your critical rate. There's also Earnest and Fearful which are a bit more rare, but twice as good. Stiff or Lizard on weapons, stiff thief hat, sharp thief accessories, unstable clothes, musician's boots, sharp thief gloves, you're basically good to go. You can replace any sharp/thief with fearless/earnest.
Yeah critical enchants take the place where +damage enchants go, and yes that is Crash Shot's advantage.
This 'crazy protection' you speak of is without base. Go look at the wiki so you can get an idea of how much protection HM monsters typically do have.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-10-15 14:32
I've found that Arrow Revolver doesn't hit the bulkier mobs hard enough even with criticals to be efficient. With the advent of Crash Shot, the majority of ranged skills (with the exception of final magnum) have been outclassed.
Ask yourself this question, do melee characters strive for 130 critical? No. Why not? The answer is simple. They have an excellent AOE skill which ignores protection to determine the critical hit rate. Compare to Crash Shot.
Melee doesn't care about scoring critical hits when using normal attacks. I no longer care about scoring critical hits when spamming Arrow Revolver.
You're better off enchanting for maximum damage. It'll make you a better melee/range hybrid and your primary damage dealing skill (Crash Shot) will thank you for it.
Of course, Elves should still enchant for 90/130 critical because their magnum can potentially fire three times before ours loads.