Okay, so, NA wiki can go die.

• Osayidan wrote on 2010-11-01 22:27
  I have a wiki working with vbulletin, I just don't have time to finish a new layout that works with it since upgrading + wiki breaks this one. When I get off work I have the option to cook dinner and do personal stuff, or work on Nation, and it looks like my choices are obvious. I was even going to cancel the wiki entirely because of that vindictuswiki, but it looks like that wiki is a piece of trash, I couldn't find anything helpful on it either for my evie.
  
  Either way though a wiki can be up rather quick compared to making a whole database working with the forum for permissions to modify it. If someone wants to create a simple database that doesn't have any fancy elaborate stuff like vbulletin integration it can be hosted on Nation though, just contact me with your plans.
• Soleil wrote on 2010-11-01 22:35

  Quote from Tasha;200752:

  
  And better things to do than what exactly? Adding a link to the Guidelines on A) The main page, or B) the image upload page? It's so hard, I know. It might actually take a whole 30 seconds and be too stressful for you, what with your stressful school life and all.

  
  There's a link to a Wiki Help page on the main page and navigation bar.
  As for the upload page, I don't think there's even a way to add the link there, or if there is, then it's really hard to find :I
  
  Also, if you have design suggestions, talk about it in the IRC. If you can make a better logo/background, go for it. I doubt most of us will complain about replacing them as long as we think it's better.
  
  As far as the image screenshots go, I think using the skimpier inner armor would be better too, but having consistent poses for the picture is good, though there should be a separate guideline for gloves.
• TA wrote on 2010-11-01 22:46
  I disagree about poses. It just adds too much work for the end user and is entirely unnecessary. The difference of standing in pose 1 and any other pose is moot. You get a perfectly accurate view of the armor in the default view.
  
  If someone posts up equipment images of an entire set, each piece front & back and then they're told it's bad and shouldn't have been added because they aren't the right pose, then that isn't about practicality anymore whatsoever. It's just being totalitarian and wanting to dictate control over too many aspects. Practicality would dictate allowing users to post what users will post, perhaps with a very basic guideline like it being in avatar shop with no additional items (that's a good one), but more than that and it begins to get too complex for the average Joe to be arsed to add anything.
  
  And I don't know about you, but I don't want to be the only one adding crap to the wiki. If a couple small changes make it much more likely for people to contribute, then they should be done.
  
  I also don't like the fact that if something doesn't fit some obscure guideline that it's reverted. It's just blindly followed and people don't even bother to question whether the guideline is even necessary in the first place. Making things hard and/or frustrating for the users isn't going to win people over and the Wiki isn't going to be very popular if things don't change. Which makes me sad, because regardless of all my complaining, I do actually like it. There are major things that need to be changed, but I like it.
  
  Well, actually... I don't know that I so much like this one since so much needs changed and it just seems to be completely ignored. I just like wikis I guess... if there were a better one, at this point, I would jump ship and use it. There's no question in my mind.
• Celadon wrote on 2010-11-01 23:59

  Quote from Tasha;200784:

  I disagree about poses. It just adds too much work for the end user and is entirely unnecessary. The difference of standing in pose 1 and any other pose is moot. You get a perfectly accurate view of the armor in the default view.
  
  If someone posts up equipment images of an entire set, each piece front & back and then they're told it's bad and shouldn't have been added because they aren't the right pose, then that isn't about practicality anymore whatsoever. It's just being totalitarian and wanting to dictate control over too many aspects. Practicality would dictate allowing users to post what users will post, perhaps with a very basic guideline like it being in avatar shop with no additional items (that's a good one), but more than that and it begins to get too complex for the average Joe to be arsed to add anything.
  
  And I don't know about you, but I don't want to be the only one adding crap to the wiki. If a couple small changes make it much more likely for people to contribute, then they should be done.
  
  I also don't like the fact that if something doesn't fit some obscure guideline that it's reverted. It's just blindly followed and people don't even bother to question whether the guideline is even necessary in the first place. Making things hard and/or frustrating for the users isn't going to win people over and the Wiki isn't going to be very popular if things don't change. Which makes me sad, because regardless of all my complaining, I do actually like it. There are major things that need to be changed, but I like it.
  
  Well, actually... I don't know that I so much like this one since so much needs changed and it just seems to be completely ignored. I just like wikis I guess... if there were a better one, at this point, I would jump ship and use it. There's no question in my mind.

  
  
  I thought I had mentioned this earlier, but maybe I didn't. We're well aware of the fact that the Wiki isn't exactly the most user-friendly site at the moment, and we're trying to keep that in mind and make things more user-friendly. If the poses and the guidelines really irk you that much, then we'll change them and make them easier (ex. use the default pose and take all screenshots in the Avatar Shop). One thing I would like to keep, however, is the zooming in of screenshots for hats / helms. We can discuss that, too, if you don't like that idea.
  
  If you believe I was rude to you, then I apologize for both saiyr and my own actions. I know what it's like to upload a bunch of things and then get told that it isn't good enough or that things are being changed around or things like that. I've had to recategorize tons of pages (namely the equipment pages o_e) several times already, and I know it's frustrating at times.
• Kenero wrote on 2010-11-02 00:12
  Don't get me wrong Celadon. I don't hate you or bumble or any of the admins. If I came off like that, I apologize. I'm just frustrated on how unfriendly it is and how often my own peers ask me how to work with infoxboxes when I just want to play, especially when I explain it and they never edit it because it's too problematic.
  
  If possible, I might add in a few suggestions on my user page on what people want and suggest changing if that will help the administration see, at least from my friends and my point of view suggestions on the wiki.
  
  Of course, Criticism without any helpful advice/suggestion is bland, so I'll also add in some ideas to make it work. Will that be okay?
• Cryotic31 wrote on 2010-11-02 00:24
  The wiki has it's problems. From a personal opinion, people seem worry over how good it looks or how things are presented. I mean honestly, the point of the wiki is practicality.
  
  I go there looking for information on something; I get it and then I leave. Keep it simple. Sure, looking good and presentable is a plus, but I stress that it's the content that matters. I'd prefer a wiki that has the information I want, over one that looks "good".
  
  Why don't we give them the benefit of the doubt and let them get around to posting the accurate information first. People have different work ethics. To think that someone should perform at the same level you do; especially when they're not being paid, is naive.
• Kenero wrote on 2010-11-02 01:05

  Quote from Cryotic31;200862:

  The wiki has it's problems. From a personal opinion, people seem worry over how good it looks or how things are presented. I mean honestly, the point of the wiki is practicality.
  
  I go there looking for information on something; I get it and then I leave. Keep it simple. Sure, looking good and presentable is a plus, but I stress that it's the content that matters. I'd prefer a wiki that has the information I want, over one that looks "good".
  
  Why don't we give them the benefit of the doubt and let them get around to posting the accurate information first. People have different work ethics. To think that someone should perform at the same level you do; especially when they're not being paid, is naive.

  
  
  I was discussing about that with a peer of mine. He said that if you want the wiki to look good, either make it friendly to edit or turn it pretty after you establish a firm foundation. At the moment the Vindictus wiki hasn't even established a firm foundation yet with our current content. So maybe make it look pretty after or more edit friendly.
• Celadon wrote on 2010-11-02 01:32

  Quote from Kenero;200855:

  Don't get me wrong Celadon. I don't hate you or bumble or any of the admins. If I came off like that, I apologize. I'm just frustrated on how unfriendly it is and how often my own peers ask me how to work with infoxboxes when I just want to play, especially when I explain it and they never edit it because it's too problematic.
  
  If possible, I might add in a few suggestions on my user page on what people want and suggest changing if that will help the administration see, at least from my friends and my point of view suggestions on the wiki.
  
  Of course, Criticism without any helpful advice/suggestion is bland, so I'll also add in some ideas to make it work. Will that be okay?

  
  
  Of course! I'm sure the rest of the Wiki team would love to know about other opinions as well. When we're deciding things, we usually discuss them on the IRC channel. Unfortunately, using the IRC channel as a primary base of communication means that the amount of input we get is fairly low, especially if there aren't many people online. ):
• TA wrote on 2010-11-02 01:43
  When I was discussing stuff last time on IRC, it seemed like everyone was pretty much ignored and the only real comments we got was being told what was already planned. :/...