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Neuenacht wrote on 2010-10-31 21:06
So, how are other classes to be able to bypass them? Does attacking Fiona from the back when she's doing Heavy Stander/Guard/Counterattack do damage to her or do those skills cover her entirely with defense? Cause that would be rtrded.
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Ruquion wrote on 2010-10-31 21:07
Quote from Neuenacht;199666:
So, how are other classes to be able to bypass them? Does attacking Fiona from the back when she's doing Heavy Stander/Guard/Counterattack do damage to her or do those skills cover her entirely with defense? Cause that would be rtrded.
Spear her feet.
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-10-31 23:43
^that and you could just mob her
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Cucurbita wrote on 2010-10-31 23:50
Just keep attacking.
Heavy Stander eats a ton of stamina.
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happynoobing wrote on 2010-11-01 00:26
yea i dont think fiona can do 3 consecutive heavy standers, she runs out of stamina. i also read somewhere that fiona's block on works for the front 180 degrees, but in my personal experience i've always successfully blocked attacks from my back without turning around... so i don't know about that...
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Cucurbita wrote on 2010-11-01 00:27
Fiona's block works behind her as well, but not entirely. You'll take damage.
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Zid wrote on 2010-11-01 00:40
Heavy Stander doesn't allow Counterattack either.
Guard does, but Smash overrides Guard, so...
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Kenero wrote on 2010-11-01 00:51
The problem with Fiona's pvp is normal attacking her is risky. If she perfect guards it with no shield durability consume or even stamina consume she can counter attack immediately, interrupting your chain. Or if she chooses not to counter and she has r9+ guard she can basically ivy sweep immediately or even amaranth kick, and Fiona's normal slashes (from my normal observation) has amazing stun time in pvp.
However low ranked fiona (less than rank 9 HS/Guard) eats up stamina fast. That and even blocking smash will knock Fiona Back (with small shield) and force her out of the stance temporarily (and if you can reach her before she can react, it's your victory).
Some common strategies is to force Fiona (with small shield) back with a smash, then hit a spear at her which will force her on her knees. Or to keep attacking and hope that her stamina runs out. Her attacks also consume a lot of stamina too so if you can force her to keep missing you can put pressure on her. If her guard is low rank and so is her heavy stander (not r9+), it's easier to force her out of stamina.
The problem is with Large Shields not knocking back, they basically can keep blocking a 3690 lann's attack and force him open but that's also its biggest weakness. If Lann can outlast Fiona during his 3690 hurricane and force the Fiona out of stamina he basically has the upper hand since Fiona won't be knock back by the smash attack when using a large shield.
However from what I seen and heard, attacking Fiona with normal attacks is risky, especially if she lands that counter or even normal attack you'll fall to your knees to experience a severe beating.
Staff Evie on the other hand can keep her distance and devastate Fiona if she has a small shield however Evie consumes stamina easily and if you run out, you either have to attack or run away. And attacking isn't recommended (even if Evie with a staff consumes no stamina) because Fiona can easily counter attack it. Mana shield is your best friend if you happen to get in a combo, but Fionas with high ranking combat mastery can easily deplete your shields and deliver a devastating kick/shield bash when all your shield. Also casting Firebolt is risky since not only it eats up stamina, if the Fiona has a high enough rank of standing endurance, she can block it immediately then retaliate.
Scythes Evies on the other hand have to make use of their blink and know when to attack Fiona. However you have to read whether it is a heavy/small shield whether the Fiona will go to Guard or Heavy Stander.
Overall it's a pretty balance PVP system, it's just that when you come against a tank that can easily crumble down your own defense, it's about exploiting their use of their equipment and having good reactions.
Also personal skill plays into effect.
Some Fionas are so clever they will go into the guard/heavy stander stance to force a Scythe Evie to teleport before rolling away then block their attack (since they believe they can chain their combos) and finish them off fast.
Of course, since Fiona has a stamina issue, it's usually best to force her open.
(oh forgot, even if you do get her open, you have to do it a few times. Some Fionas have too much defense, even when open)
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Phoenix~Lament wrote on 2010-11-01 04:18
Er, isn't it 3960 hurricane? 360x11 = 3960 for 11 spins, what would 3690 stand for?
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-11-01 05:10
360 <- x1
720
1080
1440
1800 <- x5
2160
2520
2880
3240
3600 <- x10
3960 <- x11
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Immie wrote on 2010-11-01 05:54
Aren't you assuming a lot there, Kenero? It sounds like you have not played the PvP yourself (not saying I have). From what I have read, levels don't affect PvP at all, so I don't think the first bit of your post is true... Heck, form the PvP vids I've seen, fighting other players/dueling skill doesn't matter in the slightest- players just run past each other occasionally taking a poke, just running for the flag (ball thing) in CTF.
Since you can outrun an attacking player easily, there was no risk or reward to engaging a single opponent, so they'd just move away after a few swings. The only time I saw players die (or even take significant damage) were when they were afk (lol) or badly outnumbered and out of position.
It all looked like wasted potential, but that could have just been the skill/strategy of the players I was watching was not the standard. We'll just have to wait and see for PvP to come out in NA, or for a bunch of experienced players from the KR servers to tell us what's going on there.
In other news, I'm glad we can derive multiples of 360. :lol:
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-11-01 08:31
Well he got it wrong XD
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Kenero wrote on 2010-11-01 12:47
It's just speculations on my part so far~ I'll admit my observation is what I gotten from watching videos and hearing what people discuss. I'll also admit that in many key points I am wrong and I said those in hopes that someone like you, Immie and Hiccup, would correct any of the assumptions I have before the actual thing came out.
Say something wrong purposely so that someone will be quick to correct, at least now I know a bit of the truth now.
Thanks for your information. ^^
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Immie wrote on 2010-11-01 12:59
I felt like my post might have been taken as slightly demeaning, so I just have to let you know, that's pretty much the best I've seen anyone take criticism on the internet. Ever.
But yeah, I think the big think you'll do about a fiona blocking is... nothing. If she's standing there blocking, she is not attacking you, and you don't need to worry about her at all. And when you actually DO need to attack her, she is carrying the flag/ball around and can't defend anyways. I could be wrong, but that's just how I've seen the PvP play out in the few youtube videos out there.
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Kenero wrote on 2010-11-01 13:08
Quote from Immie;200382:
I felt like my post might have been taken as slightly demeaning, so I just have to let you know, that's pretty much the best I've seen anyone take criticism on the internet. Ever.
But yeah, I think the big think you'll do about a fiona blocking is... nothing. If she's standing there blocking, she is not attacking you, and you don't need to worry about her at all. And when you actually DO need to attack her, she is carrying the flag/ball around and can't defend anyways. I could be wrong, but that's just how I've seen the PvP play out in the few youtube videos out there.
Nah, I'm actually fond of criticism. I like it a lot when someone criticizes my opinions/assumptions especially when it's incorrect, because it means I can finally move in the right direction. But what makes me upset is when people criticize/correct me and give me incorrect information (i.e. a person says don't even get rF of skills because it takes up AP).
Also the capture the flag point sounds interesting. If anything, it sounds like Fiona would be the type of guard the flag as I have yet to see any real full game video of things such as that.