Mage support

• Archibald wrote on 2010-04-26 03:35
  I have often heard that mages are mainly support players. In mabinogi that is not true once the mage hits higher levels. At this point the mage is generally doing most of the damage and aggro control. So here is a small guide on how to support a mage with good skills. This is written for pre-blaze. Post blaze will change alot of this.
  
  First, determine what type of magic they will be using. A thundering mage is very different from one that uses more icespear. Fireball is mostly for bosses so I wont list that here. I will list the strengths of each.
  
  Second determine the dungeon you will be running.
  
  Thunder Mage - This mage generally spamms thunder alot due to its High dps and excellant aggro control. The thunder mage will generally go to a corner and charge up the amount of charges needed to kill the mobs they will attack (or max charges if mobs have alot of HP). Once they have hit the mobs with first thunder they will do 1 of 2 things. They will charge 1 charge and send onto stunned mobs or charge 2 charges and wait for mobs.
  
  How to support this mage:
  
  First we must understand the most important issue mages have when running in party. That's aggro control. When a mob is stunned it can't do anything unles it has heavy stander. If you preform a attack that knocks back the mob it is then released from its stun and can immediatly rush the mage or yourself. Thus negating the purpose of the stun. First rule of running with this type of mage is DO NOT ATTACK STUNNED ENEMIES.
  
  Second, after the first set of thunder charges are finished landing the mobs will "Fly" back at differnet angles. This can be a major aggro control issue causeing the second set of thunders to miss some of the original mob that was stunned leaving the mage vulnerable.
  
  1. Go to the corner that the mage is charging in.
  2. Protect the mage while they are loading Thunder. Have a bolt spell ready or a range skill or WM in order to keep the mobs back.
  3. Use your pets and yourself as lure to make the mobs come together closer. A spread out mob will make it hard to spamm thunder effectively.
  4. Kill off weakened mobs so that mage doesn't waist a full charge on nearly dead enemies.
  
  Recommended skills: Ice Bolt(r9+), Lightening Bolt, Wm R5+, Barrier spikes, Golem Summoning
  
  Keep these things in mind and a strong mage may invite you to duo run a adv Hm or something else rewarding after showing your support skills.
  
  Icespear Mage - This mage generally relies on consistent damage, stun, and knockback to chain icespear and deliver nearly unstoppable damage to mobs. This mage may not go all the way into the corner since they want to get as many mobs in the line of icespear. Generally they will charge how many they think will kill the mobs then recharge 2 charges and spamm 1-2 charges until all mobs are dead.
  
  Aggro Control : The icespear mage can control agrro very well. However, sometimes when the chain of explosion hits one aggro mob is slightly off from another often leading to a slight scramble to cast another icespear.
  
  1. Lure mobs together with pets and yourself so that your icespear mage can hit as many mobs as possible.
  2. Make sure any mobs that are missed in icespear are kept away while mage is charging. Windmill is generally the best skill for this.
  3. Kill off the weak mobs.
  
  Recommended skills: Ice Bolt(r9+), Lightening Bolt, Wm R5+, Barrier spikes, Golem Summoning
  
  Why should I be a mage support player?
  
  Mages can do an incredible amount of damage in a short amount of time while controlling aggro. It does not take alot of support for a good mage to be able to run some of the hardest dungeons in game. A good support makes all the difference.
  
  Why do I care about any of this?
  
  When running a dungeon with a highly skilled mage keep this information in mind so that you don't cause aggro issues and get the mage killed (which may ultimately lead to your demise). Yes you can get a group of r1 wmers to run almost anything, but few of them can control aggro the way a mage can.
  
  Thanks for reading this. Please add useful comments and criticism.
  :whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip:
• Trigger wrote on 2010-04-26 03:43
  OOC: About damn time someone other than myself stepped up and stated the obvious. Mages aren't support characters, not by a long shot.
  
  That aside, does any of this really matter? Party dungeons are poor choices at best, unless you're running for drops at the end, and if you're running for drops, who wants to use a ton of MP potions for a slim chance at an item? You're better off using melee or range, as shocking as that may sound coming from me, because I'd rather not spend my MP on chances, only on definite things like EXP.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-04-26 03:46
  Doing 2 man ciar adv HM dungeons with a 2x pot gets me and my support friend 3 mil exp each in about 2 hours. Seems pretty good to me. Doing this 3 times a week gets some great levels and usually 1-2 lion hunters and maybe a colin plate or something else very nice. Yes its mana heavy but for example:
  
  This week rare item sales from HM dungeons : 9.6 Mil
  
  This week purchase of mana herbs and pots : 1.8 Mil
  
  Current level after runs 73
  
  Profit : about 6.5 mil (I spend alot on stam 30 to get into mana master pot poisen condition) + repairs.
  
  Are there better ways??? Yes. But this is a fun way for me to not always be alone when running.
• Trigger wrote on 2010-04-26 03:54

  Quote from Archibald;19000:

  Doing 2 man ciar adv HM dungeons with a 2x pot gets me and my support friend 3 mil exp each in about 2 hours. Seems pretty good to me. Doing this 3 times a week gets some great levels and usually 1-2 lion hunters and maybe a colin plate or something else very nice. Yes its mana heavy but for example:
  
  This week rare item sales from HM dungeons : 9.6 Mil
  
  This week purchase of mana herbs and pots : 1.8 Mil
  
  Current level after runs 73
  
  Profit : about 6.5 mil (I spend alot on stam 30 to get into mana master pot poisen condition) + repairs.
  
  Are there better ways??? Yes. But this is a fun way for me to not always be alone when running.

  
  
  Not bad, except for the expenditure of three 2x EXP potions. That's just wallet overkill, and that's coming from me, who's spent somewhere in the $1k+ range on Mabi. I only use one 2x EXP potion and get between 60-65 levels weekly, and there are other players who do better off field boss kills such as Desert Dragon with only a single 2x potion as well.
  
  Can't argue with the profits though.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-04-26 03:57
  Those people should post a guide on killing field bosses for levels. I personally have never done well on field bosses and tend to avoid them unless they have a specific item I am looking for.
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-04-26 04:00
  The people who kill field bosses either illegally do it, or have a team of super pros that have been playing straight for 2 years.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-04-26 04:29
  Blaze MAGE, baby!
• Archibald wrote on 2010-04-26 04:34
  yeah 1 person uses icespear and Ill camp out and blaze them to death then.
• Trigger wrote on 2010-04-26 04:41

  Quote from bradstrt;19012:

  The people who kill field bosses either illegally do it, or have a team of super pros that have been playing straight for 2 years.

  
  
  It's the latter. =P
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-04-26 05:17
  I know mages can be standalone but, when soloing, I'd prefer my Mana for Mana Shield and just consume SP for Magnum Shot since it's cheaper (I'm known to be stingy as hell but gold saving got me where I am). Most I do for standalone magic is sweeping rafting in Ice Spear or Shadow Wizard advanced which is still "eh" speed compared to Fomor Commander Hardmode. Then again, I only have r5 Thunder (which I refuse to rank since my CP is at the 1300 mark) and 400-odd Int compared to my 320 Dex.
  
  The only profit I get out of magic is using it for support since Thunder is really MP friendly at 4-5 charges. Which takes a lot of monsters' passing, so eh.
  
  All in all, I tend to avoid using a wand since I'm not made out of money..... okay maybe I am but still.... MY GOLD, MINE!
• Pocoyo wrote on 2010-04-26 06:20

  Quote from Kyouriharu;19084:

  I know mages can be standalone but, when soloing, I'd prefer my Mana for Mana Shield and just consume SP for Magnum Shot since it's cheaper (I'm known to be stingy as hell but gold saving got me where I am). Most I do for standalone magic is sweeping rafting in Ice Spear or Shadow Wizard advanced which is still "eh" speed compared to Fomor Commander Hardmode. Then again, I only have r5 Thunder (which I refuse to rank since my CP is at the 1300 mark) and 400-odd Int compared to my 320 Dex.
  
  The only profit I get out of magic is using it for support since Thunder is really MP friendly at 4-5 charges. Which takes a lot of monsters' passing, so eh.
  
  All in all, I tend to avoid using a wand since I'm not made out of money..... okay maybe I am but still.... MY GOLD, MINE!

  
  
  Steals Kyouriharu's gold just to pi** him off.
• Justified wrote on 2010-04-26 06:44
  People keep saying "Mages are not support!" but I've never actually heard anybody say they were.
  
  Also, I find it ironic that you're belittling the other people by saying that they should be supporting your magic, while you assert that magic shouldn't be supporting the other people.
• Rime wrote on 2010-04-26 07:56
  In party situations, everyone should be supporting everyone to maximize damage output and safety (though that's easier said than done):U
  That's what I think anyway, but I think what the TC is trying to say is that mages can have a high-enough DPS to sometimes be the ones to produce a good portion of the kills.
  
  Edit: Browser was being dumb and disconnected em while I was editing my post buh. Anywho:
  
  Good guide overall, though I'd like to see more combos between melees and archers, and even some combos between advance magics. For instance, when my guild used to run Peaca, my guildmates would position and hold enemies with windmill and icespear and I would massively slaughter positioned mobs with fireball.
• Trigger wrote on 2010-04-26 08:52

  Quote from Justified;19155:

  People keep saying "Mages are not support!" but I've never actually heard anybody say they were.
  
  Also, I find it ironic that you're belittling the other people by saying that they should be supporting your magic, while you assert that magic shouldn't be supporting the other people.

  
  
  You haven't been listening very well, or just haven't spoken to the right people. Hell, I know a high-ranked mage (Mimi of Mari) who herself claims mages are support characters and nothing more, which is more ridiculous than I care to describe here.
  
  Get into a discussion with just about anyone who's had any magic experience and you'll find this stereotype everywhere; it has roots deep in traditional hack'n'slash MMOs and a good number of Mabi players have experience with such MMOs. Mages can't handle multiaggro, bolt spells suck, advanced magic is too slow and takes too much AP and MP, etc. etc. etc., all of which statements lead to most so-called mages being underleveled and subject to the false assumption that their skills are only good in party play.
  
  As for the who-should-be-supporting-whom bit, it is very, very true that mages should be the ones being supported, not the other way around. I've lost count of the number of careless warriors who simply Windmill every tightly-packed mob without a second thought to the long preparation and large quantity of MP put into my fully-charged advanced spells. Keep the mage alive, and he will keep you all alive. If you're going to party with a mage, stop playing Rambo and start thinking strategically, like the mage already is.
  
  By and large, I have found that most competent mage players are far more apt to give consideration to the entire party, who has what skill loaded, etc., than warriors or rangers, who tend to focus solely on the power of their own swords and bows under the maxim that each should hold his own ground. While it's true that each person should be capable of standing on their own two feet, and that doing so is probably better EXP for everyone involved if they would just go solo, party play has an entirely different mechanic, one which competent mages tend to more naturally embrace due to its strategic nature.
  
  I still say that for the time and MP advanced spells cost, it's better for a mage to go it solo and gain the maximum EXP possible for the MP he's spending.
• Rime wrote on 2010-04-26 09:27
  Your bias is showing D:
  I think that magery is, put simply, a different flavor to combat. Whereas melees and archers get quick-loading skills that deal moderate damage, mages must invest in slow-loading spells that deal massive damage, sometimes. I think that melees, archers and, to the same extent, mages can do fine as standalone combatants, but all play styles shine with the right polish and complements.
  
  

  As for the who-should-be-supporting-whom bit, it is very, very true that mages should be the ones being supported, not the other way around. I've lost count of the number of careless warriors who simply Windmill every tightly-packed mob without a second thought to the long preparation and large quantity of MP put into my fully-charged advanced spells. Keep the mage alive, and he will keep you all alive. If you're going to party with a mage, stop playing Rambo and start thinking strategically, like the mage already is.

  
  As front-liners, melees have to keep themselves alive in order to keep their party mates alive. This sometimes entails them deviating from being mere supporters, and gearing more towards maneuvers that preserve their life. Perhaps windmilling tight mobs occurs during instances of miss-communication, or perhaps it occurs because the one at fault is in immediate danger. And who's to say mass windmilling isn't a more efficient tactic for the melees to use in some cases, despite not doing as much damage? In any case, I think that if you understand the capacity at which your party members can operate, you should be able to better execute tactics that complement your team, rather than focusing on being the ringer who will invariably have less success in executing his skills. Using solely one rigid tactic, and relying on the melee-oriented members of your team to forgo their own potential capabilities for the success of your tactic doesn't doesn't make full use of your party's capabilities, and it doesn't take the individual abilities of each party member into consideration either.