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Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-04-29 09:23
Another friend and I ran Rundal HM Normal. When we couldn't get a pass, she suggested to run HM Siren. I asked "are you sure we can clear this?" and she said "let's try it out".
So we ran it.
The only problem is....
the hardmode black ship rats are crazy.
How do people even beat those?
As someone said in one of my other threads...Thunder and advanced magic seems to have potential in this dungeon. However, I'm not quite sure how it should be done with the BSRs. R9 thunder at full-charge can only take away half of their hp.
Barrier spikes and bolt magic also have potential but my R4 walls cannot tank the BSRs for long (but it does damage to them without us losing hp :lol:).
The next time we attempt it, how many people should we bring along? What should be done about those BSR?
Also, how does hard mode compare to the regular dungeon? I'm not too willing to get a pass to see for myself until I've prepared the equipment needed for it.
Forgot to say that we didn't make it to the end, we gave up halfway, after about 5 rooms of BSRs.
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Rebel wrote on 2010-04-29 09:33
Was this NA servers?
Because I have seen deal with BSR's on other servers with ice spear->blaze, it cleans them up pretty quickly.
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Justified wrote on 2010-04-29 09:42
Normal ones can be taken down in one Crit Windmill if you have at least moderate Strength and gear. If not, 3-4 Rank 1 Icebolts makes easy work of them.
Now for Hard BSRs, the easiest solution, IMO, is to just Windmill spam them from a corner. The BSRs can never reach you before you reload Windmill unless..
A - Your weapon is too fast. Use a two-hander.
B - They ping. Send a pet at them (and ONLY when they ping). Though, you might get screwed if the pet's attack pings too, then they'll usually ignore the pet and still kill you.
C - You lag. GG.
As long as they don't outnumber your party and everybody follows the above three points then the BSRs are no problem even for non-mages.
Bolt Magic is too weak for pretty much everything in Hardmodes (or even in higher normals) so if you're going to use the wall method you might as well AR spam it as quickly as possible to get more damage out.
Also, as elitist as this may sound, I don't find Advanced Magic really "usable" until Rank 5+. The majority of Thunder and Ice Spear's potential comes in the final ranks, where Thunder gets its max chainage and long stun while Ice Spear gets its much larger area of effect. Fireball pretty much tops out around 5 and just crawls up a few extra hundred damage (the really significant Min/Max boosts come at r9 and r5, the r1 boost isn't too great).
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-04-29 13:29
They have enough protection and HP to survive a non-critical, r1, fully charged Thunder. Fireballing them is suicidal unless your party is launching more than one at the same time.
High HP Barrier would probably help a lot again a few, but not too many. Summon Golem to do the job can help as well. Bolt-counter can help you "deal" with one until you can kill it or someone helps you out. The problem is more likely that it is hard to deal damage against it.
The regular siren is pretty easy since it was designed to be a "challenge" back in G2S3. Bolt-counter is much more effective on regular BSR. If you have r1 bolts, you can kill them in 1-3 hits each depending on charge/criticals. If you are strong enough, you can kill them in 1-2 non-critical WM or one smash.
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Rebel wrote on 2010-04-29 13:39
Because I have a video for everything.
mabinogi ??????????HD?IS????ver 1/2 (sm8980914) - ???????
This is Rundal advanced Hard.. Are the BSR's the same in that and siren?
Anyway skip to about 1:15, thats when they first show up, he fights them throughout, trans'd and untransed, video comments say he has 350 int untransed.
I was asking which servers, since if it's Chinese ones, you have the ability to try using blaze?
Though this video is kinda old... you can see he has the global owl birdcage in his item bag lol
I am not sure if blaze/ice spear have been change in the 5 months since that video was made or not.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-04-29 13:52
Quote from Adori;22152:
Because I have a video for everything.
mabinogi ??????????HD?IS????ver 1/2 (sm8980914) - ???????
This is Rundal advanced Hard.. Are the BSR's the same in that and siren?
Anyway skip to about 1:15, thats when they first show up, he fights them throughout, trans'd and untransed, video comments say he has 350 int untransed.
I was asking which servers, since if it's Chinese ones, you have the ability to try using blaze?
Though this video is kinda old... you can see he has the global owl birdcage in his item bag lol
I am not sure if blaze/ice spear have been change in the 5 months since that video was made or not.
lol, Blaze/IS combo (unnerfed?) there made HM BSR look easy.
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Rebel wrote on 2010-04-29 14:09
Quote from EndlessDreams;22157:
lol, Blaze/IS combo (unnerfed?) there made HM BSR look easy.
Lol, I'm not
exactly sure when the nerfing happened, but in that video he also used life drain on a BSR, and it pretty much took it down to 10% hp, Idk how practical it is, but OP could LD the BSR's with a few people in the party, it's bound to be easier?
I've ran Rundal Advanced hard mode a few times...
Before G9, with a 3 person party, our strategy for BSR's was, one person thunder in a corner, and the other 2 wm barrier them, we cleared it pretty fast.
The thunder was r1.
EDIT:
Here is a more recent, duo version of Rundal Adv HM
The elf has 350 int also...the human has 400
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm10292374
It's almost the same tactic really, just instead of pets being the main decoy, the other person is. lol
I'm guessing that first video was post nerf..as this video was uploaded 3 weeks ago with them doing pretty much the same damage.
The elf is using crown ice wand though.
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Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-04-29 14:29
It's not NA.
I have blaze but damage at practice rank is a joke. I've seen higher-ranked blaze clearing out shadow wizard and shining bison.
It's at least good to know that regular BSRs aren't going to be as bad as HM. I don't remember how normal BSRs are like.
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pataterose wrote on 2010-04-29 14:58
you can also ice counter them in hm. it's slow, but safe :s
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Iyasenu wrote on 2010-04-29 15:15
poison? :D
dunno how much hp they have xD but poison AR behind a barrier might work xD
sure would need lotta poison since it works only a certain number of hits (at least not a time limit, though....)
...
-casts gravija on room- :lol:
maybe high ranked life drain would help, wm for your life then, BOOM, da ze. Drained xD
i'm still not thinking "outside the wall" xD
it just seems like a high ranked wall would be nice to us :o
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Syrphid wrote on 2010-04-29 15:49
If your pet is almost dead and will not survive the next hit then wm + pet support will always work, until you run out of pets. Good idea to keep them at <5% hp all the time.
Mage buddy ice spear + warrior buddy wm traveling to the corner works wonders. Pet smash the dregs that ice spear misses, either into the ice spear line or away from yourself.
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eiklnv wrote on 2010-04-29 15:56
cc+4 firebolt spam them! 8D
did hm siren with 2 ppl before, don't remember it being that bad... long time ago tho
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Iyasenu wrote on 2010-04-29 15:57
how in the world do you critsmash hardmode siren? xD
if you are able to do that...
does she drop vintage siren masks? xD
that'd be funny :p
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eiklnv wrote on 2010-04-29 16:09
Quote from Iyasenu;22211:
how in the world do you critsmash hardmode siren? xD
if you are able to do that...
does she drop vintage siren masks? xD
that'd be funny :p
according to wiki, hm siren has ~60% prot, crit rates abv 120% will have a chance i guess....
120% crit rate is easier than one would originally think, to obtain.
and no there are no vintage masks, since it's used for production, it will be lame if they made new ones which are useless...
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Iyasenu wrote on 2010-04-29 16:14
vintage dustin lol
but... making something vintage wouldn't make sense xD
you'd basically be rusting and scratching up a normal item :p
plus you'd need 150% crit to get the best odds of smashing her...
stiff bipennis, stiff cap... uummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
like 9001 luck xD
i'm still a long way from just getting through that dungeon, much less crit smashing HM siren :p