Class Conversion...?

• Chillax wrote on 2010-05-02 05:41

  Quote from Kazuni;25396:

  It's possible. Not that challenging if you're just considering the range problems.

  
  
  I was talking about how fast elves clear out Fiodh Int in comparison to a human with AR.
  
  @Chock How about fighting waves of monsters?
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-05-02 05:43

  Quote from Chillax;25405:

  I was talking about how fast elves clear out Fiodh Int in comparison to a human with AR.
  
  @Chock How about fighting waves of monsters?

  
  
  An elf and a human with equal dex, ar and range rank would still be hard to compare because humans do typically wm.
  Also, which side are you arguing from? I read the whole thing and I still can't figure it out.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-05-02 05:49

  Quote from Kazuni;25411:

  An elf and a human with equal dex, ar and range rank would still be hard to compare because humans do typically wm.
  Also, which side are you arguing from? I read the whole thing and I still can't figure it out.

  
  
  OP wants to switch from melee to range, and I'm assuming he doesn't have high ranks in melee and will focus most of his effort in range, forcing him to use range as his main attack in dungeons/shadow missions. I'm saying that it wouldn't be a good idea for him to change classes since humans are more efficient with melee than with range. I'm saying the question would be different for an elf, since they shoot two arrows at once and have a short load time, allowing them to take care of relatively weak multiaggro and zero shot tough monsters quickly, unlike a human would with his/her AR.
• Chockeh wrote on 2010-05-02 05:52

  Quote from Chillax;25405:

  I was talking about how fast elves clear out Fiodh Int in comparison to a human with AR.
  
  @Chock How about fighting waves of monsters?

  
  Well when I go do Alby inter runs, my friend seems to make a pattern of AR then wm ._.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-05-02 05:53

  Quote from Chillax;25426:

  OP wants to switch from melee to range, and I'm assuming he doesn't have high ranks in melee and will focus most of his effort in range, forcing him to use range as his main attack in dungeons/shadow missions. I'm saying that it wouldn't be a good idea for him to change classes since humans are more efficient with melee than with range. I'm saying the question would be different for an elf, since they shoot two arrows at once and have a short load time, allowing them to take care of relatively weak multiaggro and zero shot tough monsters quickly, unlike a human would with his/her AR.

  
  
  Well, it depends on your strategy, too. And speaking of elves, they do have pretty fail hp most of the time, so multi-aggro = death, whereas any human who has asked for advice on a forum for ranking things would probably get something along the lines of "WmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWm".
  
  Oh yeah. If you haven't already..
  WmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWm.
  
  I think it evens out pretty close in the end. No human is all range, because humans usually start with a simple melee build when they start playing. Melee is something to fall back on. However weak, it'll probably be better than a range-oriented elf's.
• Chockeh wrote on 2010-05-02 05:56

  Quote from Kazuni;25431:

  Well, it depends on your strategy, too. And speaking of elves, they do have pretty fail hp most of the time, so multi-aggro = death, whereas any human who has asked for advice on a forum for ranking things would probably get something along the lines of "WmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWm".
  
  Oh yeah. If you haven't already..
  WmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWmWm.
  
  I think it evens out pretty close in the end. No human is all range, because humans usually start with a simple melee build when they start playing. Melee is something to fall back on. However weak, it'll probably be better than a range-oriented elf's.

  I'm a range oriented elf, and I can clearly say I cannot handle multi-agro.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-05-02 05:59

  Quote from Chocklitshop;25437:

  I'm a range oriented elf, and I can clearly say I cannot handle multi-agro.

  
  
  I'm also a mostly-range elf.. Except for my bolts, which I spent so much ap on ranking all three to 9, then never using them.
  But yeah, multi aggro is basically death for me, unless I can play dead in time and pet smash a couple monsters to death. Sometimes I get out of situations like that, or waiting 30 seconds to get up and hide. That has so many ways it could go wrong, though.
  
  Melee reflexes are also basically dead to me, because I practically never played human. Of course, I've had two human mains in the past, but have stayed on them less than a few weeks each, in total.
• Chockeh wrote on 2010-05-02 06:00

  Quote from Kazuni;25445:

  I'm also a mostly-range elf.. Except for my bolts, which I spent so much ap on ranking all three to 9, then never using them.
  But yeah, multi aggro is basically death for me, unless I can play dead in time and pet smash a couple monsters to death. Sometimes I get out of situations like that, or waiting 30 seconds to get up and hide. That has so many ways it could go wrong, though.
  
  Melee reflexes are also basically dead to me, because I practically never played human. Of course, I've had two human mains in the past, but have stayed on them less than a few weeks each, in total.

  Elves forcibly had to make me a cleric in game :/. Almost all I do in High level dungeons are Play Dead>Hide>Revive
• Chillax wrote on 2010-05-02 06:00
  Well, while the human put a few AP into melee and the rest of his/her AP into range, the elf has been putting all of his/her AP into range, making the elf a lot stronger at ranging and most likely would run through an entire dungeon faster than the human would with range. When it gets to the higher levels, the difference becomes smaller, but I think the human would prefer Smash+WM to range in most areas where both are safe to use.
  
  Edit: I meant weak multiaggro, like Giant Forest Rats, stuff that has 200-400 hp. But that's why elves are still able to hold a 1-handed melee weapon+shield and windmill, no?
  
  The real question is, what are OP's skill ranks?
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-05-02 06:09

  Quote from Chillax;25450:

  Well, while the human put a few AP into melee and the rest of his/her AP into range, the elf has been putting all of his/her AP into range, making the elf a lot stronger at ranging and most likely would run through an entire dungeon faster than the human would. When it gets to the higher levels, the difference becomes smaller, but I think the human would prefer Smash+WM to range in most areas where both are safe to use.
  
  Edit: I meant weak multiaggro, like Giant Forest Rats, stuff that has 200-400 hp. But that's why elves are still able to hold a 1-handed melee weapon+shield and windmill, no?
  
  The real question is, what are OP's skill ranks?

  
  
  Yeah, we're able to wm, but it doesn't mean we've ranked it, or have decent str, or can deal any proper damage at all. Nor do most of us range elves who have not played humans have the notion to wm. Without this reaction, it's already rare enough for that to happen, much less the chance that switching equips + load time wouldn't kill us. I just spam range most of the time, and if I miss, keep spamming until a) the target is hit, in which case I either run farther to magnum or something, or go closer to zero shot, b) I die.
  
  Windmill is hard to work into the regular pattern of an elf ranger whose wm doesn't do anything.
  I suppose the same could be said for humans, but they do have higher str and if it's high enough, can already deal a good amount of damage with barehand damage, since they killed the bow damage wm.
  
  Wm load time is also a factor, because it's so much harder for elves to rank.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-05-02 06:14

  Quote from Kazuni;25464:

  Yeah, we're able to wm, but it doesn't mean we've ranked it, or have decent str, or can deal any proper damage at all. Nor do most of us range elves who have not played humans have the notion to wm. Without this reaction, it's already rare enough for that to happen, much less the chance that switching equips + load time wouldn't kill us. I just spam range most of the time, and if I miss, keep spamming until a) the target is hit, in which case I either run farther to magnum or something, or go closer to zero shot, b) I die.
  
  Windmill is hard to work into the regular pattern of an elf ranger whose wm doesn't do anything.
  I suppose the same could be said for humans, but they do have higher str and if it's high enough, can already deal a good amount of damage with barehand damage, since they killed the bow damage wm.
  
  Wm load time is also a factor, because it's so much harder for elves to rank.

  
  
  Which would be why I suggested OP to stay melee. Human rangers face the same miss and die issue that elven rangers do, although humans are better at tanking than elves are. I honestly do not see the benefit for him to switch from melee to range, unless he has maxed out all str skills.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-05-02 06:14

  Quote from Chillax;25475:

  Which would be why I suggested OP to stay melee. Human rangers face the same miss and die issue that elven rangers do. I honestly do not see the benefit for him to switch from melee to range, unless he has maxed out all str skills.

  
  
  Mentioned earlier: elf lag?
• Chockeh wrote on 2010-05-02 06:15
  I suggest to Get WM and Refine R1 first, then he can't go wrong.
• Justified wrote on 2010-05-02 06:16
  Range has advantages over melee and magic (in PvE)? You mean besides hiding in a corner and killing things really slowly?
  Jokes aside, it really can't compare to melee in endgame. It doesn't Crit ignore, it doesn't multi-target (splash =/= multi-target), it doesn't have invincibility frames or epic stun... and it requires a hell of a lot more work just to be decent.
  
  And a good Elf is a lot better than a Human at range - at least at midgame (haven't seen too many high level elves). If an Elf isn't taking advantage of their almost absent load speed and zero shotting everything, while letting loose Magnums machinegun-style on harder things, they aren't playing right. Remember that even if a Human can shoot faster than an Elf, Elves deal double damage. Humans aren't twice as fast as Elves, and that math isn't too difficult.
  
  Not everybody has Elf lag, and comparing an Elf without Windmill to a Human with Windmill doesn't work. Either they both ranked it or they both didn't.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-05-02 06:21

  Quote from Kazuni;25477:

  Mentioned earlier: elf lag?

  
  
  How about internet lag 8D
  
  What about most of the AR shots missing? That's happened to me quite a few times, and with the slow human range load time, the human would be forced to use windmill to counterattack, going back to good ol' melee.