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PandaSong wrote on 2010-12-22 20:59
If you're dying so much that you need to wear Light/Heavy armor. D: There is something wrong, no offense. Also, don't forget that our weight is not up for wearing all of the Heavy Armors even if you max the Weight Endurance and Heavy Armor.
Anyways, the reason you should be wearing Cloth is because of the INT/M.ATT difference. An Evy's damage revolves around that. Surviving is all well and good, but you should be supporting and contributing to the party by doing damage too. If you don't, you end up making the battle take longer and that just makes it worse for a bad team, so it's not like you can say "Oh I'm helping with survivability" because you're not. D: You're just making it take a bit longer.
And don't forget that I'm a self proclaimed full support, so I'm not one of those "omfg~ we do the best damage evah!" types. I'm not trying to get on your case, but it's asked if it was viable.. and it's not really. ^^;
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Intex wrote on 2010-12-22 21:14
Quote from BlackShuck;257757:
@Tasha
I think your missing the point. Plus why the hate? I left the Nexon forums to get away from all the people who are acting like you are now.
Whats more active?
1: Standing there waiting on Stamina to regen doing nothing or are just running around.
2: Staying in the Fight and Meleeing while your Stamina regens at what seems like the same rate.
Im trying to do something differant, and to keep the game intresting.
@PandaSong
I always thought someone whos activly in the fight, and not dying. Is supporting and contributing to the party well enough. Since When did this change?
*Edit* Im Actualy looking at using Blood Prince until I can go with War Edge. To Put these in perspective.
Blood Prince/Rose Drop is 353 Int Differance at around 706 Magic Attack.
War Edge/Rose Drop is 282 Int Differance at around 564 Magic Attack.
Please educate me why that loss is so huge that it makes my character unplayable and unwanted in parties please? Honestly I would like to know.
You're not going to play Staff Evie to her full potential if you just heal and avoid using magic attacks.
Tasha's point was that a Staff Evie who only heals and doesn't do any useful damage should be replaced with another person. Staff Evie is only a heal-bot if you want to tick off many staff players. Her main asset is her heavy hitting damage, the healing is just a side skill and not even useful in some situations. You're losing a lot of magic attack, Rank A magic mastery itself adds 500. The INT lost will just increase as new cloth sets are released. As for the defense, adding on Heavy Armor isn't going to make you die less. You'll probably die even faster if you're going to melee the boss with the worst dodge/block in the game.
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xJac wrote on 2010-12-22 21:35
^This.
You mentioned not dying and doing something is contributing to the party, but when that doing something is very minimum, almost neglect-able, then that person isn't contributing to the party. Think of a Fiona that runs around instead of block/heavy standing/countering, or Lann that doesn't dodge and has to run away to pot many many times. Yes, they are better than those who just keep dying, but they are not much better if they barely do anything else at all.
Staff Evie can heal, but it's barely a plus, her main ability to help is providing burst damage and extra stun chance, you will need those +Int. Assume you have 6k M.ATT, you're losing 9.4% damage for using War Edge, and 11.8% for using Blood Prince, it's a big difference.
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BlackShuck wrote on 2010-12-22 23:21
@Whyrainfalls
Thanks for the link.
With my current Stats at 32, with no armor on heres my damage with fire/missle.(Aginst Blood prince, since thats the biggest boss for me right now and this is non crits)
Firebolt=1,265.1 Magic Missle=185.1
With Full Rose Drop Set (adding stats to my current)
Firebolt=1,536.7 Magic Missle=224.9
And Finaly Damage in War Edge
Firebolt=1,351.7 Magic Missle=197.8
Im failing to see why in general doing 185 less damage on a firebolt, and 27.1 less damge on magic missle. While Having twice the defense (With Armor Skill) is such a game breaking failure that the character should be kicked out of parties? And this is my Stats with said gear at 32. This will be upggraded further once I have Blooming Staff + Two Thorn Rings.
@Pandasong
As a self proclaimed full support I can see your point of view but you have yet to explain to me why this isnt viable other then whats coming across as a uninformed opinion. Also I know and agree that even with full skills currently that Evie cant wear the biggest heavy or even plate armors without going overweight. Which is why im looking at War Edge which is Light/Heavy Mix and easily equipable by a Evie. I was Joking about Laghodessa.
@Intex
Im confused, it seems like your explaining exactly what I posted but in a differant way. Im under the impression Tasha jumped to conclusions about what I said before thinking about it and applying it in context.
@xJac
I dont think your quite grasping the fact that a Staff Evie can Blast with firebolt, Unload magic missles until out of stamina then melee with the staff while the stamina is regenerating (Evies stamina regenerates while attacking fairly quick).
Also could you please explain/show your math for the damage % numbers?
*EDIT*
Im sorry Pandasong, taken absolutly literaly you are completly right. Heavy Armor Evie is not viable when you cant wear the armor anyways.
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Ninmenka wrote on 2010-12-22 23:54
What do you plan to do after War Edge for armor? Just give up on Int all together? Do you plan to stay in War Edge? If that's the case, you'll eventually have people whose armor provides over four times as much int as yours does.
And that will be at just 56.
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PandaSong wrote on 2010-12-22 23:54
:P It's not just now that's the problem. Most of us look into the later boats and later levels, because if they release the patch.. we don't want to be caught up in upping something that's going to be useless later on.
Right now? Sure, it might not be that big of a difference. Later on, yes, it will be a huge difference. What I'm saying is that for the AP you have to spend on Heavy Armor Mastery/Light Armor Mastery and Weight Endurance is not worth it as an Evy. Unless you're actually at the point where you can put up your armor. But if you read Tasha's guide, he basically says "Choose early".
This is all just my opinion, and the stats on the website will show later on with the skills. It's up to you whether you want to do it or not. I was just answering the "is it viable" because, to me personally, it's not. The same with the rest of the people, you asked whether it was viable and they gave their answer. :/ If you didn't want an opinion, just don't ask.
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heretic304 wrote on 2010-12-23 00:25
Quote from BlackShuck;258079:
@Whyrainfalls
@xJac
I dont think your quite grasping the fact that a Staff Evie can Blast with firebolt, Unload magic missles until out of stamina then melee with the staff while the stamina is regenerating (Evies stamina regenerates while attacking fairly quick).
Also could you please explain/show your math for the damage % numbers?
The problem with this scenario is the fact that many bosses don't exactly give you the time to blast off a firebolt, unload magic arrows until out of stamina and then melee with staff to regen all your stamina again so you can do it again. You also have to take into account that being a staff Evy means you don't exactly have a viable dodge, so if you're that close to a boss that doesn't stay down for an obscenely long time like Vampires, and can get up and use a sweeping attack, you're pretty much going to take a hit or two.
Also, who's to say you can't Firebolt, step back a bit, unload magic arrows, and hop to start your stamina regen again, while being safe? The Staff damage, as stated by others, is not exactly the greatest thing in the world. In fact it's the absolute worst melee damage in the game. So why risk taking hits and doing a measly amount of damage when you can be safer and stay back and wait a second or two to get the stamina you need to do an actually good amount of damage?
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Singleuseonly wrote on 2010-12-23 02:00
Quote from Papa;257440:
Now now... can you really back that up?
Quote from Singleuseonly;257345:
I think by melee he means firebolt/mid range magic arrow. Staff Evie's sprint smash at r9 is alright (fire mines) doing an attack talon can kill boat 4 mobs in 1 combo except for those mini gnoll chieftans.
Quote from PandaSong;257511:
o_o; I can back that up, I think he means the charge fire mine, attack, cast fire mine skill. It OHKO's all the mobs in any boat, except the big hammer dudes in boat 4 and (of course) the bosses. <3 And it can hit multiple enemies at once xD
Isn't that what you coined attack talon?
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Kueh wrote on 2010-12-23 02:59
Quote from Singleuseonly;257345:
except for those mini gnoll chieftans.
http://mabination.com/threads/11235-Child-Event-Dungeon
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Singleuseonly wrote on 2010-12-23 03:01
Quote from Whyrainfalls;258447:
http://mabination.com/threads/11235-Child-Event-Dungeon
Oh cool, meant the ones you meet in Boat 4 though. Forgot their names...
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Kueh wrote on 2010-12-23 03:33
I believe they're called Hammer Guards.
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TA wrote on 2010-12-23 04:02
Quote from BlackShuck;257757:
@Tasha
I think your missing the point. Plus why the hate? I left the Nexon forums to get away from all the people who are acting like you are now.
Uhh.... what? What hate? And get away from people like me?!
As a self proclaimed full support I can see your point of view but you have yet to explain to me why this isnt viable other then whats coming across as a uninformed opinion. Also I know and agree that even with full skills currently that Evie cant wear the biggest heavy or even plate armors without going overweight. Which is why im looking at War Edge which is Light/Heavy Mix and easily equipable by a Evie. I was Joking about Laghodessa.
It's really silly to think we're all just uninformed because we're telling you something you don't want to hear... Did you even bother to read that section of my guide?
[SIZE="4"]Decide Early
[/SIZE]
These skills are generally unimportant unless you intend to go with various routes associated with them. You should decide early on what you want to do and rank these skills accordingly, or not.
Note: As you start out, the benefits of the heavily increased armor rating will outweigh the small difference in damage. However, once you start reaching around level 40 and start getting higher level armor sets like Rose Drop, the disparity between armor and damage will be very noticeable, and not in a good way. By not using the Cloth sets you will be losing a huge amount of INT. It's very noticeable when each piece is giving around 80 INT per piece instead of 20-30 per. It is with that said, that I personally believe that investing a lot of AP into these skills is a waste. However, later on some Cloth sets will use pieces of Light armor, at which time you will need the base Weight Endurance and may want to rank Light Armor Proficiency, when it gets to that point. Until then, more important things have priority. It is your personal choice however.
Lv. 34
034Weight Endurance
[Image: http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9656/weightendurance.png]
Description: While not exclusively an Evie skill, you need to decide early on if you're going to use this. Many Scythe users will prefer Light or Heavy Armor over Cloth Armor and those players will need to invest in this early. If you intend to go with Light or Heavy Armor, you have to get this skill to Rank A, at minimum. If you do not plan on using Light or Heavy Armor you do not need to rank this nor either of those skills. Here's why: by default you have a Maximum Weight of 91 Stones. Your Scythe with Rank D Scythe Mastery weighs 47 stones. That means you can only have 44 stones on you. Let's take the White Tyrant Light Armor set for example. Each piece is 42 stones each and there are 5 pieces. That is 210 stones, not even remotely within your realm of conceivability. With Rank A Weight Endurance you'll get an additional 120 stones. 120+44=164 stones. That means, the White Tyrant Set at 210 stones will still be too heavy. You will have to rank Light Armor Proficiency to Rank A as well for the -12 stones per piece, thus taking it down to 30*5=150, which you can manage. If you don't intend to go with Light Armor, then only rank it as needed.
Lv. 10
010Light Armor Proficiency
[Image: http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4866/lightarmorf.png]
Description: There are some advantages and some disadvantages of going this route, but you need to decide early on if you're going to do this. If you didn't, you can decide later but you'll end up having to wear cloth until then. The advantage is a higher DEF, STR, AGI and armor durability. The disadvantage is less INT and an obviously a sizable AP investment. Cloth armor will also generally be cuter. You can decide for yourselves.
Lv. 10
010Heavy Armor Proficiency
[Image: http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/648/heavyarmor.png]
Description: Some Evies will prefer Heavy Armor over Cloth or Light. You will have much higher DEF, STR & AGI stats. Your armor will also break much less. You will also have significantly less INT. However, it's important to note that it's unlikely you will be able to wear a full Heavy Armor set for a very long time. Even with Rank A and Weight Endurance Rank A and pieces enchanted, you won't be able to wear the full set. Until we get a patch that enables beyond Rank A Heavy Armor, it will be impossible to wear the full set. However, you will be able to wear 4/5 pieces of a set. You will be able to wear 5/6 pieces of Blood Prince with at least +3 enhanced armor, Rank A Heavy Armor Proficiency & Rank A Weight Endurance. If you prefer the stat boosts this provides, then go with it and invest early on. If you do not intend to use Heavy Armor, then don't waste your points in this. It's a personal call, you either want it or you don't. I'll leave that decision up to you.
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PandaSong wrote on 2010-12-23 04:47
Quote from Singleuseonly;258339:
Isn't that what you coined attack talon?
XD Yeah it is, some people don't read the guide though~ So they don't know what it is. ^^; It's easier for those who haven't read it, to just explain what it is. D: That part was more to the others.
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Keijo wrote on 2010-12-23 04:51
Don't do it at all unless your going for looks. My Scythe Evie is wearing Lagho's top, bottom and boots. Maxed Heavy Armor and Weight Endurance and I can't wear the gloves or even imagine to wear the helm. The loss of damage is notable also. With full Broken Ash and two Thorn Rings my Bloody Thread would take almost a full bar off of Gnoll Cheiftans Health. Now with Heavy armor it does way less. I must say, surviving 2-3 hits from Lagho is nice :D
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Intex wrote on 2010-12-23 05:07
@Intex
Im confused, it seems like your explaining exactly what I posted but in a differant way. Im under the impression Tasha jumped to conclusions about what I said before thinking about it and applying it in context.
You said that you wish to use heavy armor so that you can live longer. If you wear heavy armor and plan to melee you're going to do less damage and probably die faster. Scythe can get away with melee because of blink, staff needs to keep range and use magic attacks. However if you switch to heavy armor you're going to cripple that asset, making your magic attacks weak.
As a self proclaimed full support I can see your point of view but you have yet to explain to me why this isnt viable other then whats coming across as a uninformed opinion. Also I know and agree that even with full skills currently that Evie cant wear the biggest heavy or even plate armors without going overweight. Which is why im looking at War Edge which is Light/Heavy Mix and easily equipable by a Evie. I was Joking about Laghodessa.
Just like Tasha said, are you here to have people confirm your own opinion or do you actually want us to help you? Most of us have good experience playing Evie (I myself have both staff and scythe skills maxed) and we've looked at the numbers for attacks as well. We've all provided perfectly good reasons, not uninformed guesses.
We're trying our best to help you yet you're disrespecting all of us.