Evie: Dawn Rings vs. Int Rings

• sakraycore wrote on 2010-12-31 19:14

  But then, Scythes don't need to change rings. ;( Your guys's SP skill for regening Stamina is so hax.

  
  
  Actually in a party, oftentimes I get to the boss and noone has insane reaper (I'm scythe and not enough SP). People take insane reaper for granted it seems.
  
  Don't forget that you only get the +10SP/sec if you're the one who casts insane reaper, otherwise you only get 5SP/sec (in fact usually 4SP/sec since not everyone has it maxed), which while good, you will still run out of stamina without management.
  
  Don't forget that "stamina management" basically amounts to not dealing DPS. Anytime you're waiting for your stamina to regen, you could be attacking instead.
• Kueh wrote on 2010-12-31 19:16
  ^ Stam pots. I bring them with me in every run.
• Mama wrote on 2010-12-31 19:19

  Quote from sakraycore;271056:

  Why would it mean they're bad if they're lazy? They could just be lazy. Seriously you probably wouldn't notice the damage boost from thorn rings, whereas you will notice the stamina boost from dawn rings.

  
  
  its a significant amount of MATK, similar to the dmg boost of rank C of magic mastery
  for damage beasts, or people desperate for damage (read: staffs mainly!)
  
  thorn is the ring of choice unless you spend more time sprinting instead of casting spells or atking
• sakraycore wrote on 2010-12-31 19:24

  thorn is the ring of choice unless you spend more time sprinting instead of casting spells or atking

  
  
  Makes no sense at all. Attacking uses just as much if not more SP as sprinting.
  
  LLLLR -> moving bloody Thread is not repeatedly spammable and uses more stamina than sprinting in the same time frame.
• Kueh wrote on 2010-12-31 19:29
  ^ It does make sense. You said you wouldn't notice the damage boost, but if you did a lot of attacks and attacked very aggressively, you'd notice. The only way you wouldn't notice is if you did less attacking by using all your stam for sprinting.
• sakraycore wrote on 2010-12-31 19:31

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;271091:

  ^ It does make sense. You said you wouldn't notice the damage boost, but if you did a lot of attacks and attacked very aggressively, you'd notice. The only way you wouldn't notice is if you did less attacking by using all your stam for sprinting.

  
  
  You can attack more times with that extra stamina you got...(no sprinting at all, just spamming running bloody thread for instance)
• Kueh wrote on 2010-12-31 19:32
  But you said you wouldn't notice the extra damage.
• sakraycore wrote on 2010-12-31 19:37

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;271098:

  But you said you wouldn't notice the extra damage.

  
  
  I said you probably wouldn't notice (because you could be dealing more damage with dawn rings over the same period of time). For the sake of DPS, dawn rings may very well yield higher numbers.
  
  Someone feel free to test.
• Phoenix~Lament wrote on 2010-12-31 19:47
  It's hard to compare DPS between Int Rings and Dawn Rings unfortunately, but lemme give it a shot.
  
  Using the damage calculator* I compared my damage, you can see it below.
  *Damage calculator isn't 100% accurate. This is vindictusdb's calculator btw
  
  This is on Laghodessa.
  
  130 Stamina
  925 Int
  5883 Magic Attack
  

  [Image: http://i51.tinypic.com/34paseb.jpg]

  
  
  110 Stamina
  1053 Int
  6139 Magic Attack
  

  [Image: http://i54.tinypic.com/2uh01t1.jpg]

  
  
  Sure, over 100 more Int and 300 more Magic Attack looks great in your stat window, but damage-wise it doesn't make that big of a difference on things that matter. Meanwhile, there's a pretty large difference between 110 Stamina and 130 Stamina in terms of what it lets you do. With 130 Stamina, you can afford to continue attacking even when it gets risky because you still have enough stamina for a blink, while if you only have 110 Stamina you can't. This is because there is a huge difference between having 10 Stamina and 30 Stamina.* I know what you guys are going to say, yes, only a bad player would get into a situation where he/she needs to blink and only has 10 Stamina. But in that situation he/she traded his/her safety to do more damage by pulling off one more combo. What if you could make that situation safe? It would be free damage, a free combo. And it would be safe if you had 30 stamina left instead of 10. Having 20 more stamina total is often equivalent to a free combo, instead of having to retreat and wait for your stamina to regenerate. Again, it's not a crutch, it's a way to let you overextend more, deal more honest damage, and still be safe while doing it.
  
  If, with 130 Stamina, I can pull off just one more Invisible Loom + Bloody Thread combo where an Int Ring Scythe Evie retreats to restore stamina, I'm going to deal more 2492.5 damage in that instant. If I were wearing Thorn Rings, I would do only 184.6 more damage for each Invisible Loom + Bloody Thread combo, so I would have to pull off 13.50 Invisible Loom + Bloody Thread combos to only match the dps of Dawn Scythe Evie.
  
  My personal experience with Dawn Rings says that getting in just one more attack that I couldn't have gotten in without the extra stamina is very easy.
  
  By the way, I encourage everyone that strongly supports one side to try the other side's rings. They're not hard to craft, especially Dawn Rings. I crafted a pair of Thorn Rings a few days ago and have been wearing them through dailies and lagh runs, and I do have to say that I have to "manage my stamina" a lot more, which pretty much means waiting for it to refill which means 0.00 DPS, compared to Dawn Rings.
  
  *I used 30 stamina as an example because I personally have Rank A Blink (and love it dearly). For those with Rank F blink, 15 and 35 or 20 and 40 would better support my point.
  
  -
  
  If anything, Dawn Rings facilitate a style of gameplay that focuses on attacking more often (and in the process dealing more honest damage) but doing (slightly) weaker damage, while Int Rings support a style of gameplay that focuses on attacking less often but hitting (in my opinion slightly) harder.
  
  Remove my opinions which are in italicized parantheses and that should be an objective claim Scythe Evies can agree to. Of course, Staff Evies are a whole different topic. @__@
• PandaSong wrote on 2010-12-31 21:57
  I think I just got a headache from reading all those numbers. D: So.. many.. numbers. *dies* Anywho, this will most likely be my last post on this thread. ;P You all know my stance on these things!
  
  But. :( I don't take Insane Reaper for granted! ;~; As a Staffy, it's like, "ohthankgod! They casted it!". It may not seem like a lot to you, but.. D: To a Staffy, that extra little stamina boost = <3. Especially when you have to heal a lot. ._.;
• Mama wrote on 2010-12-31 22:36
  hmm..
  
  well, i'm just thinking about speed runs, when dps is most relevent. more stamina wouldn't let you get more hits in, because you're waiting for the boss to be somewhere or attack before pulling off your moves, and even 110 allows you to do that objectively and have time to blink. int would be better in that situation, anyways. Its rather difficult to look at it objectively since theres so many situations and depends on the player's style. Dawns will certainly be a good cushion when you make a mistake and need to get out of somewhere quickly, i guess.
  
  i'm still of the opinion that learning better stamina management will be more beneficial than dawns ever will be. I never have stamina problems on my evie, but always find myself short of it on the fiona -w-
• sakraycore wrote on 2010-12-31 22:48
  DPS is most relevant in raids imo.
  
  Burst damage is more important for speed runs because you only have time to get in 1 combo usually before having to blink.
• Mama wrote on 2010-12-31 22:54

  Quote from sakraycore;271341:

  DPS is most relevant in raids imo.
  
  Burst damage is more important for speed runs because you only have time to get in 1 combo usually before having to blink.

  
  
  people do speed runs of raids.
• Phoenix~Lament wrote on 2010-12-31 22:54
  Dawn Scythe Evie can only pump out higher DPS if and pretty much only if she can get in an extra combo where Int Ring Scythe Evie cannot.
  
  As I stated, Dawn Scythe Evie better supports a style of play that focuses on attacking more often (to be precise, attacing exactly when int ring scythe evie cannot), which is mostly incompatible with the style of play necessary for soloing raid bosses.
  
  So yeah i pretty much agree with you guys. It's situational. When soloing raid bosses I would take Int Rings ideally.
  
  I should also make a big note, that I realize that Insane Reaper effectively eliminates any advantage that higher maximum stamina would grant, which detracts from Dawn Scythe Evie. However, you won't always have Insane Reaper on all the time (oh, how I wish.. lol. Well I guess you could buy stamina potions) but there are definitely times when Dawn rings are the better option.
• sakraycore wrote on 2010-12-31 22:56

  Quote from Mama;271349:

  people do speed runs of raids.

  
  
  And DPS is more important in a lot of those such as laghodessa raids. With enough DPS you can render both spiders unconscious for the entire battle.
  
  I guess I wasn't really clear on what I meant:
  
  -DPS is more important for party play, since you actually have a chance to repeatedly attack without having to dodge. In solo speed runs you usually have to blink after 1 combo making burst damage more important.