"God" and Religion.

• dasu wrote on 2010-07-06 18:10
  I wish I could have read the entire thread as it developed, and replied more relevantly when some of these points were brought up. But I just want to comment on a few things that popped up in what I read here.
  
  "All religions are the same". I think plenty of non-religious persons come into contact with one religion, or more appropriately I should say one type of religious person, and get turned off from the rest. Yeah, sure, there are extremists and whatever. But in the same way that science is so incredibly varied in all its fields of study, so too is religion. Everyone has something different to say, and it's not always about a single god, and having to live a subservient life. Even if you don't like the idea of religion, you should at least try to familiarize yourself with some that don't get exposure in the Western world. Otherwise, you're just misunderstanding a deeper purpose of religion.
  
  "Science cannot be explained in religion/religion cannot be explained in science". I don't want to split these two groups up this way, but it's more accessible to people reading this. I really have trouble with these kinds of argument, because they rely on the assumption that their own system can explain everything. I'm not trying to say that either belief system can or cannot explain everything, but you can't rule one out because the other doesn't adhere to your own system. Instead, you need to try to understand what it says on its own. Really, I think both "sides" would benefit if they'd just agree that they can't bridge themselves at this time, and not get in each others' way. But I also think that the dichotomy of science and religion is a bit of an illusion; both are attempts to explain things. They may go about business differently, but they still have common ground.
  
  Also, I myself am a syncretist. I'm not strongly tied to any religion, and I employ beliefs from theisms and atheism. Rather than strictly following what any one source says, I try to look at all sources and find common ideas. I'm also very open to changing beliefs. It works quite well for me.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-07-06 19:06

  Quote from kuri;82267:

  what i've seen from the religious side is that there is no real evidence that would hold up to scientific scrutiny. the "evidence" that is offered all have to deal with what-if's and personal testimonies of how god has affected a certain person's life. i'd have to say that religion helps certain people and so i find nothing wrong with people believing what they choose <- if someone believes something false and it makes them happy, so be it
  
  

  
  
  While there isn't scientific proof of God, there is actually, in the Bible, many advance scientific concepts.
  
  For example, the Bible says in Psalm 8:8 ". . . whatsoever passeth through the PATHS OF THE SEAS."
  
  After reading Psalm 8:8, Matthew Maury, a U.S. Naval officer, set out to locate these curious "paths in the seas." He discovered the oceans have paths which flow through them. He became known as the "pathfinder of the seas". How did David (the writer of Psalms) know, over 2,000 years ago, there were "paths in the seas"?
  
  For more examples go to this link That Amazing Book - The Bible
• Odinwolfe wrote on 2010-07-07 23:39

  Quote from Iyasenu;27777:

  I believe in God, but it's cuz i want to... and it helps me cope with things.
  
  Plus I loved my mom too much to think that she isn't where i believe she is right now. in the ground.
  
  It's just faith. But that's all I can say about religion.
  Nothing can change my views. Just wait until as old as my parents and see the big picture. Your views will change unless you were brainwashed, which it doesn't seem like it at all.
  But I don't really share them with others. There's a word for what i feel...
  The whole believing in my religion but not saying that others are wrong... nice point of view
  
  I dunno, personal heaven. Go for it.
  It works for me, anyways.
  
  All I really have to do is be a good person, hm. :p also a good view
  
  Just >.< don't talk to me about my religion... it's...
  it reminds me that i'm supposed to help spread it... but it goes against my personal convictions of letting people live believing in what they want to.
  
  I think of it like this: I believe in God and heaven and hell. I want to. So i do. Someone else has different views. I don't disbelieve them. But I don't try to talk to them about it either.
  
  I guess I like to hold onto my views, but keep from talking about them...
  It's just... easier?
  
  And I can never change my views. If only for my loved ones who're gone, then for myself.
  But for now, it's just the here and now, right?
  
  also, yeah I kinda fit into Andy's #4.
  
  I can't place it, and I can't prove it really, but I believe it still.
  It might sound foolish but... that's my view anyways.

  
  Fixed, commented.
  
  It's perfectly fine that you believe what you do, but you can achieve almost all of this, or possibly all of this without believing in God,heaven, and hell.
  
  also to comment away from the quote,
  
  If "God" is willing, but not able, then he is NOT omnipotent.
  If "He" is able but not willing, then he is malevolent.
  
  To Quote a movie,
  "Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, f****' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER! "
  
  God ordered the slaughter of countless towns, including the young, the old and the sick. Men, Women, children infants, livestock.
  Why? because they didn't worship him. That's right, they didn't worship him. Why should anyone worship a selfish, jealous controlling sadist of a deity.
  
  The Judaeo-Christian god is a malevolent being that either uses the world as his own RTS game, or as a place to let us all kill, murder, and defile each other so he can watch.
  
  If I offended anyone with this post, I do not apologize.
  I have been offended by religion for too long.
  
  It's fine to believe what you want. So, in essence it should be fine to hear what others have to say even if you don't like it.
  /rant
• Serathx wrote on 2010-07-08 00:09
  I'm not sure if this website has been posted in this thread (Too lazy to look through 26 pages) but it's an interesting read. Why Won't God Heal Amputees?
  I personally think that God was made to explain the unexplained. And now, the unexplained has been explained through science. I therefore don't see much use for religion in the world anymore.
  If anything, it's probably doing more harm than good. I'd pick apart the Bible now but I don't have
  time so just look at the link in my post. ;x
  Also, the universe is so large that if a God was really there, he probably wouldn't care much about us. We're insignificant in the scheme of things. Pale Blue Dot, anyone? Geez, I sound like such a nihilist.
  And of course, disclaimer: This is just my personal opinion and I'm not forcing you to read it if you don't like it. And I'm certainly not some scholar with the knowledge of all religions, so I may be getting something wrong or something like that. D:
• kuri wrote on 2010-07-10 03:50

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;83772:

  While there isn't scientific proof of God, there is actually, in the Bible, many advance scientific concepts.
  
  For example, the Bible says in Psalm 8:8 ". . . whatsoever passeth through the PATHS OF THE SEAS."
  
  After reading Psalm 8:8, Matthew Maury, a U.S. Naval officer, set out to locate these curious "paths in the seas." He discovered the oceans have paths which flow through them. He became known as the "pathfinder of the seas". How did David (the writer of Psalms) know, over 2,000 years ago, there were "paths in the seas"?
  
  For more examples go to this link That Amazing Book - The Bible

  
  
  the passage of scripture in psalms 8 was not intended to shed light on ocean currents, it's purpose was to give praise to God. so although you could interpret it to mean david having knowledge of ocean currents, it'd be more logical to say that "paths in the sea" is just a phrase coined up in poetic inspiration, a fancier way of referring to the ocean. just as humans use paths, david must have envisioned that animals and fish use their own sea-path
  
  of course, you could say "what if God *did* give david prior knowledge of things not known to science at that time?"
  
  the possibility is considerable but it's farfetched and that's what i mean by religious evidence amounting to "what-if's"
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-07-10 10:15

  Quote from kuri;87778:

  the passage of scripture in psalms 8 was not intended to shed light on ocean currents, it's purpose was to give praise to God. so although you could interpret it to mean david having knowledge of ocean currents, it'd be more logical to say that "paths in the sea" is just a phrase coined up in poetic inspiration, a fancier way of referring to the ocean. just as humans use paths, david must have envisioned that animals and fish use their own sea-path
  
  of course, you could say "what if God *did* give david prior knowledge of things not known to science at that time?"
  
  the possibility is considerable but it's farfetched and that's what i mean by religious evidence amounting to "what-if's"

  
  
  Yes, the main purpose of Psalm 8:8 is indeed to glorify God. Yet does it not glorify God even more when relatively advanced scientific concepts are revealed and suggested? If you have not visited the link already, I suggest that you do because the science in the Bible is astounding! You suggest that the phrase "Paths of the seas" is merely poetical, but even if you look at it that way, does it not seem strange that that is how it was worded? If David was just trying to be poetical, don't you think he would have used something like "expanse of the sea" or "depths of the sea"? "Whatsoever passeth through the depths/expanse of the seas" would be just as poetical and would make a lot more sense because the people at the time knew that the sea was deep and expansive but they didn't know about ocean currents.
  
  The Bible is not meant to be a science textbook, but it does contain some amazing science which is one of the indicators that the Bible is indeed the word of God. Anyways, I'm not going to go into a long drawn out debate with anyone about this. I suggest you click on the link I provided earlier and decide for yourself.
• Felix wrote on 2010-07-11 01:42
  I personally have my own unique views on God and religion.
  
  Simply put, I do believe there is some almighty figure that started the universe. However, I also believe in evolution, and scientific theories about the creation of the world and life. What I DON'T believe in, is religion its self. I dont believe in the story of Adam and Eve. I feel it is simply made up to explain things not explainable by science back then.
  
  Now then, here is an example as to why I feel the bible and the church its self to full of it.
  
  In the bible, it states that you must believe in Jesus and God, and ask for forgiveness for you sins. But lets think for a moment. Imagine a child, born in some 3rd world country, where his family has believed to folk tales about some tribal gods for generations. It is entirely possible that this kid will grow up knowing only this, and no other religions or gods, but what he was taught by his parents. Now then, lets say he grows to be 20 or 30, and still has no knowledge that Christianity even exists. Now, lets say he dies from some disease. Now, he goes to where ever, and learns that his gods where fake, and since he never believed, its off to hell for him. Or so the bibles says.
  
  Now does that seem like something a "fair" and caring God would have? Someone damned the moment they were born, all because they where brought into this world at an was inconvenient location?
  
  The way I see it, is that as long as you do good in your life, that is good enough. And that is enough o get into Heaven...If it exists.
  
  I really can not say if there is a Heaven or Hell. The only way to know for sure would be to die. But I have another theory on that. I certainly think SOMETHING happens, otherwise there would be a paradox.
  
  Think of it this way- when you die, your mind shuts off, it becomes permanently unconscious. Now then, what happens when you are unconscious? Well, like when you fall asleep, any amount of time passes in an immeasurable moment. Now, when you die, an eternity passes in literally no time at all. How is that possible? There are two explanations.
  
  One, there is an afterlife, so you never even feel unconscious.
  Or two, since your mind does not even work, there is technically no paradox, because the unconscious thing only happened because of your mind and thought, and how it grasped the concept of time. It was simply relative.
  
  The last part about my thoughts on the afterlife may not make much sense, seeing how I discredited the whole notion with number 2, but still.
  
  START HERE IF YOU JUST SCROLLED PASS EVERYTHING.
  In summery, I feel there is a God, but the way we think of "Him" and religion as a whole is flawed, and wrong. Heaven and Hell may, or may not, exist, and maybe God doesn't do anything but watch over us. Now that I think of it, couldn't it be that "God" doesn't even need to be worshiped? Thats my two cents anyway.
  
  So while I am not an atheist, I guess I am a pagan? Or would I be a heretic? Hm.