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Phunkie wrote on 2011-01-07 15:06
Yes, I agree. The effort you put into ranking WM is not diminished by this potion.
If so, then -CP items also diminish your efforts greatly. Just because you couldn't obtain this WM Potion or a -CP item (or even the Brionac) while you were training doesn't mean that everyone should go through the same. If there's easier ways for people to train their skills, I'm all for it.
I wish the best for everyone, not the worst.
However, I would object if there was a 1000 AP Potion in the Cash Shop. That, I think, is really unfair. But this potion just gives you the training, not the AP to rank it, so it's not that bad. It's like using the Brionac, only much quicker.
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Herro wrote on 2011-01-07 20:10
Quote from Phunkie;280345:
However, I would object if there was a 1000 AP Potion in the Cash Shop. That, I think, is really unfair. But this potion just gives you the training, not the AP to rank it, so it's not that bad. It's like using the Brionac, only much quicker.
The 1k ap pot wasnt a cash shop item, but rather an item to repay the players for a bug due to ducan stealing ap earlier... at least thats what i heard/believe. (correct me if im wrong)
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starpaw7 wrote on 2011-01-07 20:43
No thank you.
Even I am tempted, but I wouldn't feel that I earned Rank 1 if I did :what:
I can understand if it helped with Windmill such as the -20% success rate that the Failure Potion does, but seems to be too easy of a shortcut
Blacksmithing Potion? I think we're lucky enough that NA made a typo on 2 of the ranks; you become the lord of the server once you get to Rank 1.
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-07 20:49
Quote from Dixon;277040:
I pray this never makes it here.
Why don't they add buyable skill-training potions for everything while they're at it, since people who pay money are too good to actually have to play the game apparently.
This. :| I got to Rank 1 by pure hard work. (And a Jackal Wiz, but its not like I used double skill pot for it.) I would hate to see a rank of a skill I was proud of to be so easily obtainable.
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Fabian wrote on 2011-01-08 03:41
Quote from Cryosite;280320:
It is selfish to expect or demand others go through the same effort to obtain something that you did. Someone else getting something easier does nothing to diminish you, your effort, or anything. How easy or difficult someone else has getting it has -absolutely no impact on you at all- unless you enjoy having higher WM than other people, i.e. being an arrogant or elitist prick.
Games progress over time. What was hard gets easier for a variety of reasons. The amount of damage available to a player and how soon they can get to that damage has increased dramatically. Between running a farm to get gold and purchasing upgraded gladii from other players, to better enchants, heck even the introduction of dual wield, have all made training WM easier. Going outside the example of WM, tons of other things have gotten easier too.
Get over it. A person starting out today will not be, and should not be forced to take years to get to the playing field. You spent more effort to obtain WM in your time, when it was harder. You got to enjoy using that skill during that time also. A new player had neither opportunity. The only reason to oppose making training easier would be if it also made it less fun. Considering how many players say training WM is boring, I don't see much risk of that at all.
Best argument in the whole thread.
People should keep things such as feelings out of the way. Just because you went through hell and came back in order to get something, it doesn't mean that other people have to go through that. Following everyone's way of thinking, weekly rebirth is unfair because a noob can make my 6-8 months of playing look like nothing in 2-4 months. Cash shop is also unfair because it takes me 1month to make 10m, when someone with some cash can buy gachapons and make 20m in a day. See, everyone? You can't really say that something like this is unfair when people can literally buy their way to end-game items which are better than r1 windmill (or you can get r1 windmill in a day once you get all those equips/2xpots).
Quote from Chisuke;280623:
This. :| I got to Rank 1 by pure hard work. (And a Jackal Wiz, but its not like I used double skill pot for it.) I would hate to see a rank of a skill I was proud of to be so easily obtainable.
I'm sorry to tell you, but using that Jackal Wiz, greatly reduced the hard work of getting r1 windmill. Also I didn't use any -cp equip, which makes me hate you for devaluing my hard work? See where I'm going? I spent 2-4 months with the burden of not training anything because it would make windmill harder to train later on and I certainly do not wish other people to waste their lives the same way I did if they have a chance to skip over it.
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-08 04:16
Quote from Fabian;281238:
I'm sorry to tell you, but using that Jackal Wiz, greatly reduced the hard work of getting r1 windmill. Also I didn't use any -cp equip, which makes me hate you for devaluing my hard work? See where I'm going? I spent 2-4 months with the burden of not training anything because it would make windmill harder to train later on and I certainly do not wish other people to waste their lives the same way I did if they have a chance to skip over it.
I didn't devalue your hard work at all. I'm proud of the work I put in, I didn't use the jackal wiz until the last two ranks. So yeah. :| I'm proud of you for not using -cp gear, good for you. Gloat all you want. o.o
I see where your going, but in my opinion you should put some work into it.
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Fabian wrote on 2011-01-08 04:47
Well, the last ranks are usually the harderst (except r4), don't you agree? What's the point of using at rank F? Also, it seems you didn't get my irony. I was practically mocking you for your view of other people having to go through the hard work of getting r1 windmill like you did....using jackal wiz suit at the last 2 ranks. I also used your way of thinking (or so I believe) hence the "which makes me hate you for devaluing my hard work?" because of your "I got to Rank 1 by pure hard work. ([SIZE="5"][SIZE="6"]And a Jackal Wiz[/SIZE][/SIZE]....)" and "I would hate to see a rank of a skill I was proud of to be so easily obtainable.".
Wouldn't you agree with me that you obtained windmill r1 easier than me because of the jackal wiz you used? Now if you obtained that jackal wiz after millions of years of saving money, then it'd be acceptable, but if you got it from gachapon or from a friend, it'd be completely understandable for me to rage about it being easily obtainable, wouldn't it?
Well, I'll try to think about it more, but so far my argument beats your "pride", yes?
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-08 04:56
Can't I be proud of something without someone biting my head off? Seriously.
Theres hardly anything I can feel accomplished for, and I have a right to feel good about it and express my own opinion, thank you.
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Fabian wrote on 2011-01-08 05:07
Hey, you asked me to put more work onto it, didn't you?
The thing is, there's nothing wrong with being proud about something, but it is wrong to force people to go through the same thing you did. Here's an example "Dad beats the living lights out of his son every time he does something wrong > Son grows up and has kids > He beats the living lights out of his kids just because his dad beat him up, so he has to do the same, you know, his kids have to suffer just like he did". This kind of thing happens in real life, not only in families, but in MMORPGs, Mabinogi to be more specific.
I also respect your opinion, but if everyone in the world did not try to persuade or to make someone understand one's reasons, then we would end up in a stalemate forever.
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-08 05:11
Quote from Fabian;281369:
Hey, you asked me to put more work onto it, didn't you?
The thing is, there's nothing wrong with being proud about something, but it is wrong to force people to go through the same thing you did. Here's an example "Dad beats the living lights out of his son every time he does something wrong > Son grows up and has kids > He beats the living lights out of his kids just because his dad beat him up, so he has to do the same, you know, his kids have to suffer just like he did". This kind of thing happens in real life, not only in families, but in MMORPGs, Mabinogi to be more specific.
Erm, I didn't tell you to put more work into anything.
I just think they shouldn't get such a powerful skill so easily.
And whats with that abuse thing? Thats making it seem much more serious then it is.
And again, I have my own opinion.
Theres nothing wrong about me being proud of something eh? Certainly didn't seem like that way.
I also understand where you're coming from, but I have a different view.
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Fabian wrote on 2011-01-08 05:27
Quote from Chisuke;280623:
This. :| I got to Rank 1 by pure hard work. (And a Jackal Wiz, but its not like I used double skill pot for it.)[B][SIZE="5"] I would hate to see a rank of a skill I was proud of to be so easily obtainable.[/SIZE][/B]
Well, the thing is that you are implying that making windmill easily obtainable through a skill potion decreases the amount of pride that you have about getting r1 Windmill. Why would it decrease? There are still people who are proud of beating G3 prior to the nerf and it doesn't reduce their pride that other people are completing an easier G3, heck, it even makes them more proud.
Now about the abuse thingy: It was in order to allow everyone to easily understand the example. Things change or else they can't improve, or do you want a mabinogi without things like dual wielding just because Open Beta testers worked hard without them and now they make mabinogi easier to us?
Also, as I said and now I'll restate: Feeling proud of getting r1 Windmill without those pots is good. I'm proud about my r1 Windmill too and no amount of pots for skill I've mastered will decrease this feeling of pride that I hold towards getting those r1s.
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-08 05:39
Well, I'm happy for you. But again, I still think that it shouldn't just be handed to them by buying it. (Not saying you did.)
I like your opinion, its shiney and wrapped with glittery wrapping paper, its nice. But I have mine. (Not sarcasm, btw.)
I had never said that you couldn't be proud of the way you obtained yours.
And I can be unhappy if people obtain it by buying it if I want to, if this is your strange way of reassuring me in some way, well, thanks I guess.
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Fabian wrote on 2011-01-08 05:49
Quote from Chisuke;281433:
Well, I'm happy for you. But again, I still think that it shouldn't just be handed to them by buying it. (Not saying you did.)
I like your opinion, its shiney and wrapped with glittery wrapping paper, its nice. But I have mine.
I had never said that you couldn't be proud of the way you obtained yours.
And I can be unhappy if people obtain it by buying it if I want to, if this is your strange way of reassuring me in some way, well, thanks I guess.
:O You just twisted my whole argument without any type of proof, fact, anecdote or testimonial whatsoever. But okay, I accept your surrender (yesh, I'm proud of winning arguments :D). Guess there's not much else for me to post in this thread since I've already stated my opinion and trains of thought.
Btw thanks for the discussion, it made me use my brain to analyze stuff (possible practice for my english finals lol).
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-08 05:52
I sense some arrogance here.
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Morrigan wrote on 2011-01-08 05:58
I never surrendered. Nor was this argument worthy, you were just some guy who decided to push their opinion on me.
Happy Trolling.