A bit of Giant Advice?

• Chihaya wrote on 2011-01-08 21:16
  WINDMILL WINDMILL RAWR~
  
  I'd also rank Smash, since it's a skill that giants can use really easily.
  Afterwards, Stomp and CM... Oh, Critical hit as well...
  Then just rank skills you think would be nice =P
• Cucurbita wrote on 2011-01-08 22:16
  Its 33% easier than humans.
  Not "extremely easy".
• Crimmy wrote on 2011-01-08 22:33

  Quote from Cucurbita;282479:

  Its 33% easier than humans.
  Not "extremely easy".

  
  
  Do you even have a giant?
• Arsik wrote on 2011-01-08 22:41

  Quote from Crimmy;282305:

  Yeah but unfortunately that's the only place where Stomp actually deals a lot of damage. Bandersnatches and Snow Zombies are weak to it but that's the only monsters that are. Otherwise, Stomp is a close-range stunner or deadly-finisher to me. Then again, I never really trained it. It's only at rA. I've yet to meet a r1 Stomper and dungeon with them unfortunately.

  
  
  Seriously? I figured every Giant that has gotten past R1 WM would have mastered Stomp as their next priority thanks to the master title's +40 Str. For early game or TM spamming, there isn't a better title. Once you get into mid-to-end-game where you are now doing Jousting for the Gladiator title for a good +Str and +Dex title. And even then, some might overlook the 2.5% Balance increase and 50SP decrease for the +4 Max Damage at the cost of 3% Critical from Luck, which is worthless for anyone who's character is over the age of 14.
  
  Skill wise, it's worthless, aside from being cheap and Stomping an opponent to near death so that you can tame it, since it doesn't cause aggro from passive enemies, running Par, spamming it on Wights because you ran out of MP to cast IB, or killing a Mimic pit in one shot without losing 10% of your HP in one attack.
  
  But anyways, if you're making a Melee Giant, after getting the essentials (RF of all Combat skills, Healing, First Aid, IB and FireBolt), then the build order should look similar to this, in my opinion:
  
  R1 WM
  R1 Stomp + Master
  R1 Throwing Attack
  
  Those three should be trained first before ranking anything else, in that order. WM is extremely easy to train as a Giant, especially with Their Method, since unless you have 1200 CP, you'll still be able to find slow moving, but meaty, Bosses for you to kill, as well as Awfuls, and Strongs that appear in groups of 4, depending on the level of the mission you picked. Stomp, as said, should be mastered for the Str and SP the skill gives, and the Master title which gives you +40 Str, which early game, and depending on where you're hunting, end game, is the best title you can use for melee. Throwing Attack next because of the cooldown the skill has, and how it doesn't knockback after each hit, you'll have to use the Party Finish to All setting to be able to train it, especially after R4, where you can only train the skill on Boss monsters. And since you can only get like javelins thrown per minute, you're looking at almost 17 hours of grinding the skill, waiting for it's cooldown, and about 11 of those 17 is just for R3->R1, and that's not counting double skill training through pots or Double Rainbow. Definite skill to get out of the way ASAP.
  
  After those three problem skills, you can now start looking at Critical Hit, which you can easily train actively up to R9 on Foxes before it becomes a bore, in which case, you should rank it when ever you finish training it for that skill level, and then focus your AP on ranking Critical Hit to the next one. I would also train Smash and Combat Mastery to 1 side by side, since Giants have a lower loading time for Smash, and extra damage can only help you deal damage. Once Smash and CM are R1, I would personally go with Charge, so that you have a decent long range attack, along with a great combo starter, since you can get to enemies before they aggro you and/or attack them before they do so if they do aggro you first. Also start thinking about ranking Refine while you're in this phase of training, since the more Balance you have, the more damage you can do thanks to being able to dual wield War Hammers, which are some of the best upgraded, readily available one handed weapons a player can use.
  
  Then I would get IB to R9, mostly for the fact that it lets you fall back when you need a long range attack, but both Throwing Attack and Charge are in cooldown. At 4 MP per charge, and most likely having only around 30 or so MP total, you won't be using it much besides luring, combo finishers or when you need that long range attack. Alternatively, you could go for R5 LB, but with that, you'll be using 8MP per charger at your 30MP, and an extra 49 AP for maybe an extra 30 damage to your combo. Not really worth it compared to IB.
  
  I would then start ranking Taunt to R1. This skill needs Bosses to be provoked to attack you, so better get it out of your way now before it's too late, but the demand for Bosses isn't much, so you can get by with a few pieces of -CP gear. Of your remaining Combat skills, Defense is the most useful, since it adds more HP and gives you base defense, as well as some actual use in combat. Then, it's up to you which skills to rank based on preference. If you have your Refine training done so that you can now raise skills that give Dex without too much worry, then I'd go with Counterattack, Evasion, then Wind Guard. Counter and Evasion both give Dex, Counter more so than Evasion (15 vs. 4). Neither of these skills are terribly useful and are only situational. Wind Guard gives you an additional 520 CP at R1, so unless you're done with training skills that have CP requirements, or a fetish for having a high HP number, I wouldn't rank it.
  
  After that, you can rank what ever branch you'd like. Personally, if you don't go with Life Skills to boost your Dex, then I would go for Alchemy, thanks to Giants getting more SP thanks to a few of their skills handing it out like candy.
  
  For Transformation, it's simple to follow, just pick one that suits you the most:
  
  [code] >>>> Looks >>>> Daemon of Physis RX (See below for X)
  Daemon of Physis RB >>>> Damage >>>> Giant Full Swing R1
  >>>> Balance >>>> Life of Physis R1[/code]
  
  RB Daemon will allow you to reach 80% Balance with pretty much any weapon you pick up, since the skill gives the Giant a boost to their Dex (a indirect boost to Balance), a direct boost to Balance, and some extra damage. After reaching RB, you decide whether you want to focus on the looks of your Savage Beast, in which case, you pick a form you like, go to the first rank that look is available, with the exception of Savage Beast, since you're already at the last rank you can have it before you change shape. For the other races, it would be the last rank, but since the Giant's transformation skill focuses on Balance, so going any further than the rank that you first change into that form can be considered a waste, since those points could be poured into more useful skills instead of a number that just won't go up.
  
  If you want pure damage, then after RB Daemon, get GFS to R1, pronto. Single most damaging single hit skill a player has access to. If you like to see big numbers over the flying corpse of your enemy, then this skill is for you.
  
  Otherwise, Life of Physis is your best bet, since the skill adds to your Str (overall damage), Will (Critical) and SP, meaning you can spam Smash, WM, GFS for longer, and if you equip yourself with an Iron Mace ego and an upgraded 200 War Hammer, your DPS will be sky rocketing, but you won't have the burst damage as someone with the R1 GFS.
• Yanm wrote on 2011-01-08 22:54

  Quote from Arsik;282546:

  Seriously? I figured every Giant that has gotten past R1 WM would have mastered Stomp as their next priority thanks to the master title's +40 Str. For early game or TM spamming, there isn't a better title. Once you get into mid-to-end-game where you are now doing Jousting for the Gladiator title for a good +Str and +Dex title. And even then, some might overlook the 2.5% Balance increase and 50SP decrease for the +4 Max Damage at the cost of 3% Critical from Luck, which is worthless for anyone who's character is over the age of 14.
  
  Skill wise, it's worthless, aside from being cheap and Stomping an opponent to near death so that you can tame it, since it doesn't cause aggro from passive enemies, running Par, spamming it on Wights because you ran out of MP to cast IB, or killing a Mimic pit in one shot without losing 10% of your HP in one attack.
  
  But anyways, if you're making a Melee Giant, after getting the essentials (RF of all Combat skills, Healing, First Aid, IB and FireBolt), then the build order should look similar to this, in my opinion:
  
  R1 WM
  R1 Stomp + Master
  R1 Throwing Attack
  
  Those three should be trained first before ranking anything else, in that order. WM is extremely easy to train as a Giant, especially with Their Method, since unless you have 1200 CP, you'll still be able to find slow moving, but meaty, Bosses for you to kill, as well as Awfuls, and Strongs that appear in groups of 4, depending on the level of the mission you picked. Stomp, as said, should be mastered for the Str and SP the skill gives, and the Master title which gives you +40 Str, which early game, and depending on where you're hunting, end game, is the best title you can use for melee. Throwing Attack next because of the cooldown the skill has, and how it doesn't knockback after each hit, you'll have to use the Party Finish to All setting to be able to train it, especially after R4, where you can only train the skill on Boss monsters. And since you can only get like javelins thrown per minute, you're looking at almost 17 hours of grinding the skill, waiting for it's cooldown, and about 11 of those 17 is just for R3->R1, and that's not counting double skill training through pots or Double Rainbow. Definite skill to get out of the way ASAP.
  
  After those three problem skills, you can now start looking at Critical Hit, which you can easily train actively up to R9 on Foxes before it becomes a bore, in which case, you should rank it when ever you finish training it for that skill level, and then focus your AP on ranking Critical Hit to the next one. I would also train Smash and Combat Mastery to 1 side by side, since Giants have a lower loading time for Smash, and extra damage can only help you deal damage. Once Smash and CM are R1, I would personally go with Charge, so that you have a decent long range attack, along with a great combo starter, since you can get to enemies before they aggro you and/or attack them before they do so if they do aggro you first. Also start thinking about ranking Refine while you're in this phase of training, since the more Balance you have, the more damage you can do thanks to being able to dual wield War Hammers, which are some of the best upgraded, readily available one handed weapons a player can use.
  
  Then I would get IB to R9, mostly for the fact that it lets you fall back when you need a long range attack, but both Throwing Attack and Charge are in cooldown. At 4 MP per charge, and most likely having only around 30 or so MP total, you won't be using it much besides luring, combo finishers or when you need that long range attack. Alternatively, you could go for R5 LB, but with that, you'll be using 8MP per charger at your 30MP, and an extra 49 AP for maybe an extra 30 damage to your combo. Not really worth it compared to IB.
  
  I would then start ranking Taunt to R1. This skill needs Bosses to be provoked to attack you, so better get it out of your way now before it's too late, but the demand for Bosses isn't much, so you can get by with a few pieces of -CP gear. Of your remaining Combat skills, Defense is the most useful, since it adds more HP and gives you base defense, as well as some actual use in combat. Then, it's up to you which skills to rank based on preference. If you have your Refine training done so that you can now raise skills that give Dex without too much worry, then I'd go with Counterattack, Evasion, then Wind Guard. Counter and Evasion both give Dex, Counter more so than Evasion (15 vs. 4). Neither of these skills are terribly useful and are only situational. Wind Guard gives you an additional 520 CP at R1, so unless you're done with training skills that have CP requirements, or a fetish for having a high HP number, I wouldn't rank it.
  
  After that, you can rank what ever branch you'd like. Personally, if you don't go with Life Skills to boost your Dex, then I would go for Alchemy, thanks to Giants getting more SP thanks to a few of their skills handing it out like candy.
  
  For Transformation, it's simple to follow, just pick one that suits you the most:
  
  [code] >>>> Looks >>>> Daemon of Physis RX (See below for X)
  Daemon of Physis RB >>>> Damage >>>> Giant Full Swing R1
  >>>> Balance >>>> Life of Physis R1[/code]
  
  RB Daemon will allow you to reach 80% Balance with pretty much any weapon you pick up, since the skill gives the Giant a boost to their Dex (a indirect boost to Balance), a direct boost to Balance, and some extra damage. After reaching RB, you decide whether you want to focus on the looks of your Savage Beast, in which case, you pick a form you like, go to the first rank that look is available, with the exception of Savage Beast, since you're already at the last rank you can have it before you change shape. For the other races, it would be the last rank, but since the Giant's transformation skill focuses on Balance, so going any further than the rank that you first change into that form can be considered a waste, since those points could be poured into more useful skills instead of a number that just won't go up.
  
  If you want pure damage, then after RB Daemon, get GFS to R1, pronto. Single most damaging single hit skill a player has access to. If you like to see big numbers over the flying corpse of your enemy, then this skill is for you.
  
  Otherwise, Life of Physis is your best bet, since the skill adds to your Str (overall damage), Will (Critical) and SP, meaning you can spam Smash, WM, GFS for longer, and if you equip yourself with an Iron Mace ego and an upgraded 200 War Hammer, your DPS will be sky rocketing, but you won't have the burst damage as someone with the R1 GFS.

  
  
  Very informative....why haven't you made a guide? =D
  As for the bolded part, with an Iron Mace ego, they wouldn't have it at first, but they CAN get a Titantic Crocodile Broad Axe, or an upgraded Battle Hammer, Untamed/Necromancer Crocodile. Though, I do see what you mean by not having it immediately, as those are annoying to get.
• Crimmy wrote on 2011-01-08 22:56
  Arsik, make a guide for melee giants please.
  
  Like I said, I'm no melee giant anymore and what you listed is probably the best information I've heard for them.
• Arsik wrote on 2011-01-08 23:20
  Because I'm too lazy to make a guide, and instead, just copy/paste what I've been spouting for a long time now whenever this question comes at hand, only modifying when new information comes out in other servers, for example: I used to believe that melee Giants should only ego a Battle Hammer, or if they're funded enough, a Broad Axe, so they can take full advantage of GFS. However, with new enchants, an upgraded/enchanted 2-Handed Blunt can reach similar levels as an ego variation, so it's up to the player whether they want to go for relatively easy GFS power now, or wait for it later. And now that G13 is coming out and there's Overupgrades, there's no reason why a player shouldn't save up for an upgraded/enchanted Broad Axe, and go with the Iron Mace ego, since those things are still extremely powerful and very few weapons come close to it's power.
  
  If I made a guide, then I'd probably go really in depth, and explain every thing in detail, DPS for each skill, why you should do this instead of that, weapon comparisons, build comparisons for the end where a player can choose whether to go for the remaining Combat skills, comparisons between a Giant Knight, a Giant Mage, and a Giant Alchemist, and all the oh so fun stuff that I'd rather do than do something else. Meaning if I'm bored, I'll probably start working on it.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2011-01-08 23:40

  Quote from Crimmy;282531:

  Do you even have a giant?

  
  
  I made a giant and got rank 1 windmill before even seeing rank E of any other skill.
  
  After rank 3, zombies were the best target for the job. Thats still like 2000 zombies. That'll take a whole freaking day if I'm fast. I grabbed a few CP reduction gears and said "screw you zombies", and went to Rabbie Basic and spun some skeletons instead.
  
  Afterward I maxed out stomp, worked throw to rank 9, and got rank 2 refining before I got bored and quit mabinogi indefinitely.
  
  Training stomp and throw was agony. After reaching rank 1 windmill, finding multiple STRONG targets to stomp finish becomes pretty damn annoying.
  
  Maybe you don't consider 10 hours of nonstop training something grinding. I do. I have things to do and I'm not going to spend a free day training a skill.
  
  If I can cut that 10 hour to 5 hour by NOT ranking other unimportant crap, I think thats what I'll do.
• Cynic wrote on 2011-01-09 00:04
  Arsik, I love you. 8|
  
  But really, thank you guys~ I had no clue what path to take since Giants are certainly more Melee-made. Plus, I didn't stick to Melee long with my Human before branching out into a lot of other things.
• Kyreffer wrote on 2011-01-09 01:16
  Yeah I advise that you don't de-rank any skills. You only need those if you're really hurting, like 1500 cp hurting and need to derank thunder or something.
• jking012 wrote on 2011-01-09 05:50

  Quote from Cynic;281879:

  I browsed around quite a bit and couldn't really find the right answers, sooo..
  what are some primary skills to rank for a pure melee Giant? I already have r8 Combat Mastery, rA (35% away from r9) Windmill and pretty good equipment. Everything else is rE or below.
  I do know the basic fundamentals of Melee, just not so much with Giants. Her total level is only 4x at the moment, she's freshly made.
  
  So, any advice on what skills to continue ranking/start ranking first?

  
  
  Throwing attack with Wm, Stomp and taunt come next, Refine... and then w/e you want really...
  
  Throwing attack usually first because... the 30 second cooldown and power it does.... outmatches.. its hard to explain basically..a rank 9 throw attk will beat anything at your cp if you rank it first wheras killing something with rank 9 Throw say at higher cp... is gonna well... you'll need to crit... to 1 hit it :/ and trust me... going... with party/anyone finish party training it is really annoying... (I'm Rank 5 throw attk and i have 1400 cp), plus getting -cp for throwing attk is bad... cause getting -500 or -1000 cp for magic clothing for GIANT is almost impossible or just REALLY REALLY expensive prolly around 9 mil on tarlach... because of the bs you have to go through... And you cant wear Abysmal pot with your atatl+jav ... sooo TRAIN IT FIRST... stomp and taunt are easy enough to rank even at fairly higher cp's (ex. not allot of requires for stomp and taunt is easy to train even at cp 900 in adv/hard their method... ^^