Username wrote on 2011-01-08 20:17
I have already been considering Expert Advice. But if the expert advice is all BAD advice, its not really advice at all.
Theres a good side to everything!
Nalgor wrote on 2011-01-08 20:33
As in, what makes a ego wand better than a normal, un-upgraded wand.
Sunureu13 wrote on 2011-01-08 21:04
Quote from Username;282237:
I have already been considering Expert Advice. But if the expert advice is all BAD advice, its not really advice at all.
Theres a good side to everything!
What makes it bad advice? Is it because it differs from what you believe and have your mind set on? I think so. Because his "advice" is just numbers and date. Cold hard facts. If you want to spend tens of millions on an inferior weapon and have already made your mind up, don't bother asking.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-08 21:07
Quote from Sunureu13;282313:
What makes it bad advice? Is it because it differs from what you believe and have your mind set on? I think so. Because his "advice" is just numbers and date. Cold hard facts. If you want to spend tens of millions on an inferior weapon and have already made your mind up, don't bother asking.
Sunu, he hasn't provided cold hard facts yet. He might be right but where are the numbers you're talking about?
Justified wrote on 2011-01-08 21:09
Quote from Archibald;281985:
Ego icewand is even worse due to the dura burning nature of chaincasting. And being far outclassed by crown wands for icespear.
Pretty sure this is wrong. Firebolt and Lightningbolt chaincast should use 5 charges worth of dura as well.
And the Ego Ice wand easily outclasses a +28% Crown Ice Wand, even if you don't consider the crit bonus.
Quote from Archibald;281985:
fireball from ego firewand (r1 fireball) = 2000-3000 + 110 = 2110-3110
Fireball from non Ego wand (r1 fireball) = 2000-3000 X 23% = 2460 - 3690
This is moot since whether he uses a Chaincast wand or an Ego wand, he'd have a separate Phoenix Wand for Fireball.
/scratch that last comment.
Username wrote on 2011-01-08 21:15
Quote from Justified;282332:
Pretty sure this is wrong. Firebolt and Lightningbolt chaincast should use 5 charges worth of dura as well.
And the Ego Ice wand easily outclasses a +28% Crown Ice Wand, even if you don't consider the crit bonus.
This is moot since whether he uses a Chaincast wand or an Ego wand, he'd have a separate Phoenix Wand for Fireball.
/scratch that last comment.
I probally said id use Fireball and Firebolt with the wand, but im not very far into being a mage, so now i see that a Pheonix wand would be for Fireball.
If anything i would use fireball with the ego as a last resort or for fun or somthing.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-08 21:21
Quote from Justified;282332:
This is moot since whether he uses a Chaincast wand or an Ego wand, he'd have a separate Phoenix Wand for Fireball.
/scratch that last comment.
Quote from Archibald:
fireball from ego firewand (r1 fireball) = 2000-3000 + 110 = 2110-3110
Fireball from non Ego wand (r1 fireball) = 2000-3000 X 23% = 2460 - 3690
Also, base damage in g13 is 2400, not 3000, and you're using g13 features to compare the ego.
2400*1.23=2952
Chihaya wrote on 2011-01-08 21:28
Quote from Archibald;282012:
I'm a mage first, alchemist second, ranger 3rd and melee 4th. I made a bow ego.
I loled so much XD
If you ask my opinion, I would recommend making a two-hander sword ego. It doesn't give you the best damage, but its stun is very good for windmill spamming. Plus, it's rather easy to repair as well, provided it's a Claymore or a two handed sword. I imagine that it'll be easy to repair Dustin swords too, however.
Kaeporo wrote on 2011-01-08 21:29
Quote from Justified;282332:
Pretty sure this is wrong. Firebolt and Lightningbolt chaincast should use 5 charges worth of dura as well.
And the Ego Ice wand easily outclasses a +28% Crown Ice Wand, even if you don't consider the crit bonus.
This is moot since whether he uses a Chaincast wand or an Ego wand, he'd have a separate Phoenix Wand for Fireball.
/scratch that last comment.
Not really. Spirit wands contribute hardly anything to intermediate/advanced magic, bolt composer can't be used with a chaincast spirit wand and chaincast icebolt spam is mostly useless (not to mention outclassed by Arrow Revolver).
The crown ice wand buffs what's important; intermediate magic.
Quote from Chihaya;282380:
I loled so much XD
If you ask my opinion, I would recommend making a two-hander sword ego. It doesn't give you the best damage, but its stun is very good for windmill spamming. Plus, it's rather easy to repair as well, provided it's a Claymore or a two handed sword. I imagine that it'll be easy to repair Dustin swords too, however.
Upgraded two handed swords in G14 outclass or at least compare to high level spirit two-handed weapons, the exception being Giant two-handed weapons.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-08 21:44
Quote from Kaeporo;282384:
Not really. Spirit wands contribute hardly anything to intermediate/advanced magic, bolt composer can't be used with a chaincast spirit wand and chaincast icebolt spam is mostly useless (not to mention outclassed by Arrow Revolver).
The crown ice wand buffs what's important; intermediate magic.
Upgraded two handed swords in G14 outclass or at least compare to high level spirit two-handed weapons, the exception being Giant two-handed weapons.
We are discussing Chaincasting, which is the only appealing of ego wands. We all agree that Inter Magic and regular wands are generally better, etc. but let's discuss one thing at a time.
Justified wrote on 2011-01-08 21:46
Quote from Kaeporo;282384:
Not really. Spirit wands contribute hardly anything to intermediate/advanced magic, bolt composer can't be used with a chaincast spirit wand and chaincast icebolt spam is mostly useless (not to mention outclassed by Arrow Revolver).
The crown ice wand buffs what's important; intermediate magic.
Ego Wands are comparable to Chaincasting Wands. There's no point in saying Intermediate wands are better than Egos, unless you plan on using Intermediate Magic with a Chaincasting Wand. That's like me saying your Bow Ego is garbage since the Windmill damage sucks.
Egos are better than Crown Ice Wands at single Icebolt damage, meanwhile being able to chaincast with higher crit.
Arrow Revolver is also a very weak skill, outclassed by Magnum and Support Shot, just like Icebolt is outclassed by Ice Spear.
The fact that people still use AR shows that you won't always need 2000+ damage. Chaincast Icebolt may be useful in more places because it uses less mana and doesn't require proper positioning or lined up mobs, places like Intermediate dungeons and such.
Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-09 00:42
For a melee character, windmill offers speed, high damage output, and area effect along with defensive properties and mob control properties. Not surprisingly, a lot of melee characters can get away with a fighting style that focuses entirely on this skill, while a skill like smash is considered "situational."
For range style characters, crash shot has become the central main skill for similar reasons as WM, though magnum still deals more damage faster in a lot of situations. AR has been relegated to a defensive skill for the most part.
Both of those substyles of the combat tab build gain benefit from their ego weapon by improving their main attack. They also benefit from more damage for their situational/supporting attacks (benefit in this case is going by the situation where ego weapons are better than non-ego counterparts like in g2-g3 era).
A mage is not just someone who casts (or spams as the derogatory description of the activity is often called) some bolt spells over and over. The art of playing a mage is in finding that safe spot... the best corner of a dungeon room in the old days, or that place where the mobs are most "lined up" for ice spear, or that sweet spot outside of aggro range but inside thunder's max range. Then unleashing an attack that clears out whole spawns rapidly, and efficiently. Bolt spells are the support/situational attacks that clean up the odd survivor or finish, or control single mobs with a stunlock for awhile in party play, or numerous other utility uses.
The reason an ego wand -sucks- is that it does little to nothing to enhance your main attacks. All they are capable of is boosting the damage on your utility/situational attacks. It is ludicrous to imagine someone would be willing to spend millions of gold feeding an ego wand to boost their support skills. Even with the boosts firebolt is not going to replace thunder or fireball for DPS. Sure you can do ok single-target dps, with little preperation. But mages excel at area effect damage, and the amount of mana you burn on killing 10 mobs with chaincast firebolt is far greater than the mana used for 4-5 charges of thunder.
With g13 coming out, bolt mastery paired with elemental masteries and the new int formula can push bolt damage a little higher. That's great and all... but you're still only hitting one target (lightning arcing to hit extra targets is a poor substitute for real area effect). Intermediate magic (and adv magic) is just plain stronger, and a better use of your time and mana for the bulk of your mob-killing needs.
You might think bolt composer, letting you fuse ice and lightning or fire and lightning will give you good damage for low mana cost and replace spells like thunder for clearing spawns out... and you might be right. but not with an ego wand.
If you're planning on throwing away several million gold on your new hobby of spellcasting... do it in an intelligent way. Purchase some nice upgraded and enchanted wands. a cc+4 fire wand, one or both of ice and lightning wands, a max-speed phoenix fire wand and crystal lightning wand, and a max-damage crown ice wand would be a good start to your collection of tools. I personally also like such wands as a tikka healing wand for extreme mana cost reduction, a 4/5 upgraded lightning wand with -mp cost upgrade for basic thunder usage, and a similar ice wand for ice spear usage. You're also going to want to spend roughly 500k for thunder, 1.5-2m for fireball, and 2-3m for ice spear, depending on fluctuation of individual pages and your server (my quotes based on ruairi prices).
Or you could, y'know, spend all that money on stuff to feed a crappy glowing stick that boosts one element of basic bolt spells a bit.
EDIT: And just to throw out some numbers for people to chew on about my statement of firebolt vs 10 mobs and thunder vs 10 mobs: rk1 firebolt 5mp/charge. -20%, from fire mastery, -10% from set effect, 5 charges, and ten casts = 250mp *.80 * .9 =180mp. Thunder: 109.6mp for 5 charges not counting any reductions at all. But -10% from set effect, -20% from lightning mastery, and -16% from 4/5 upgraded lightning wand are obtainable offering a cost of 66.2mp. The firebolt+ego would take 20 seconds (2 seconds charge time, 10 castings) vs 17.5 seconds for 5 charges of thunder (or only 14 seconds if only 4 charges were used, since that would be the minimum needed to hit 10 targets). 4 charges of thunder would be 1800 base damage, boosted by lightning mastery (+20%) to 2160 damage, while firebolt would be 780 base damage (120*6.5) +40 (ego str) +15% fire mastery, +15% bolt mastery=1084.4 damage.
So you're taking longer to do about half the damage, and spending about three times the mana, while using a wand that costs several million more gold to acquire/build, and has a higher maintenance cost.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-09 00:57
That's cool. But what's the down side of having an ego wand if you're a pure mage?
Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-09 01:11
Quote from gentrone;282893:
That's cool. But what's the down side of having an ego wand if you're a pure mage?
It takes up three spaces of inventory? It costs millions of gold to feed it, and doing so gives -nothing- useful? G2 when ego wands came out... normal wands were better. Why? because normal wands didn't cost as much (neither gave chaincasting yet). G3, normal wands better than ego wands -still-. Chaincasting was out, but so what? G4-6... you guessed it.
Melee weapons and bows being threatened by the power of non-ego counterparts is relatively new, but coming into heavy attention with g13-g14. Ego wands however, have -always- been useless and strictly worse for a pure mage or a casual/hybrid mage.
gentrone wrote on 2011-01-09 01:26
Quote from Cryosite;282916:
It takes up three spaces of inventory? It costs millions of gold to feed it, and doing so gives -nothing- useful? G2 when ego wands came out... normal wands were better. Why? because normal wands didn't cost as much (neither gave chaincasting yet). G3, normal wands better than ego wands -still-. Chaincasting was out, but so what? G4-6... you guessed it.
Melee weapons and bows being threatened by the power of non-ego counterparts is relatively new, but coming into heavy attention with g13-g14. Ego wands however, have -always- been useless and strictly worse for a pure mage or a casual/hybrid mage.
Yes but you don't have to spend all your time feeding it. Other non-chaincast wands might be better, but what's the real downside of having one? I other words, what are you giving up in order to have one? Nothing but inv space. Just feed it drops and it won't cost millions.