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Ignorant wrote on 2011-01-12 01:43
So what's a good ego for a range/magic elf? 8D
I'm an elf who is just barely getting into range (well, not even into range.../still refining). I also have some AP invested in magic and after RQing alchemy, I decided to pick up range and, after pumping some AP into it, picking up magic and becoming a range/magic hybrid. So what ego should I get? Well...I already have an ego, but I made it when I was not thinking clearly and my thoughts were consisted of: "Ohohohodowantshinyweaponthatsummonsprospirittoeateverythinginfrontofmeohoho." I ended up making a Guardian Bow spirit...think I should keep it or spring for a different bow? A wand? In which case, which one?
Crash Shot v. Ice Spear
I'm not made of AP and I want to know which one to work on first? Should I balance the two? They both use MP, so I don't think that's a good idea. I've already considered the pros and cons of both, such as AP cost, MP cost, damage, and splash. Which do you think I should go with?
Minibuild \o/
Lastly, can you guys provide me with a minibuild? I need to rank Ranged Attack, Magnum Shot, Final Shot, Crash Shot, Ice Spear, and a few other skills, but in what order? D8
Thankyew guys in advance~
Edit:
Current skills:
rF Ranged Attack (like a boss)
rF Magnum Shot
r5 Firebolt
r9 Icebolt
rA Lighting Bolt
rE Thunder
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Retard wrote on 2011-01-12 01:49
Ice spear sux Go crash shot all the way
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gentrone wrote on 2011-01-12 01:51
Quote from Ignorant;286931:
So what's a good ego for a range/magic elf? 8D
I'm an elf who is just barely getting into range (well, not even into range.../still refining). I also have some AP invested in magic and after RQing alchemy, I decided to pick up range and, after pumping some AP into it, picking up magic and becoming a range/magic hybrid. So what ego should I get? Well...I already have an ego, but I made it when I was not thinking clearly and my thoughts were consisted of: "Ohohohodowantshinyweaponthatsummonsprospirittoeateverythinginfrontofmeohoho." I ended up making a Guardian Bow spirit...think I should keep it or spring for a different bow? A wand? In which case, which one?
Kaeporo or radionose would be better suited to answer this question but I can give some advice: don't ego a wand. A ranged ego would help you the most (don't know which).
Crash Shot v. Ice Spear
I'm not made of AP and I want to know which one to work on first? Should I balance the two? They both use MP, so I don't think that's a good idea. I've already considered the pros and cons of both, such as AP cost, MP cost, damage, and splash. Which do you think I should go with?
Crash Shot and Ice Spear are very AP costly, and you won't experience much of a difference in your game play if you don't have high stats (damage for Crash Shot and MP for Ice Spear). You'd be better off ranking Ranged Attack and Magnum Shot, and maybe some bolts if you really want to dive into Magic. Although I would recommend you specialize rather than hybridize.
Minibuild \o/
Lastly, can you guys provide me with a minibuild? I need to rank Ranged Attack, Magnum Shot, Final Shot, Crash Shot, Ice Spear, and a few other skills, but in what order? D8
Ranged attack/refining and Critical Hit, Magnum Shot, Barrier Spikes?, etc. I don't know much about ranged but you need the basics first, I guess. As I said Kaeporo or radionoise would help you better here.
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Sapphireoath wrote on 2011-01-12 02:13
I'd say get Mag and Range to R1 first, after you get Refine to 1 of course. Then, if you want a bit of protection between you and the enemy. Get Barrier to R5 at least. WM to R9 for that load speed, or R5 if you want more range on it. For protection yet again, don't want those fomors getting too close Lol. After you have those sorted, if you want to start on Mage have a look at this guide (namely the "Build" section):
http://triggersguide.webs.com/
Another good guide for just Elves in general (this includes things such as Skills, Weapons, Enchants etc):
http://mabination.com/threads/175-The-Elven-Handbook-Everything-you-Need-to-Know-about-Elves
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Ignorant wrote on 2011-01-12 02:47
Whoafastposters 8D
@gentrone I really don't want to specialize D8 I tried that God knows how many times only to get bored and RQ being that "class."
@Purrz24 Haha xD But I like Ice Spear D8 In fact, I lawve it! Its ability to spread through a crowd of monsters like a pandemic is so alluring to me :blood:
@Sapphireoath I agree on the Refine/Range/Mag to r1 8D And I already have r9 WM xD I've also read Trigger's guide many times, but I disagree with him on the matter of Icebolt and, more importantly, Ice Spear being inferior to Thunder; his guide isn't too helpful D; I'll read that elf guide, though 8D
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gentrone wrote on 2011-01-12 02:57
Quote from Ignorant;287026:
I've also read Trigger's guide many times, but I disagree with him on the matter of Icebolt and, more importantly, Ice Spear being inferior to Thunder, so his guide isn't too helpful D;
Whoa, be careful with that kid. People here like to praise you-know-who. Join the resistance, and we will fight the Dark Lord, etc.
In all seriousness, it's really really nice to read a divergent opinion when most people mindlessly refer to Trigger's guide as the ultimate magic build. It's a nice work, but it's biased. I also think Ice Spear is really nice and generally underrated but it would be much better if it didn't cost that much MP, which isn't much a of a problem for an elf.
The truth is once you rank enough magic skills, you will notice there is not such thing as "the best" spell, each has its own usefulness in different situations.
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Ryoko wrote on 2011-01-12 03:02
Hybridizing might become a little difficult, since you'd probably be switching weapons and accessories (If you used enchants.)
Plus, you'd probably want to start off of mage, and then end off with range/dex skills. But you should do refine first to get it out of the way, and the rest of it can probably be trained when you run out of MP and have to resort to using range. As a mage, you should get a decent MP pool first before doing advanced magics such as Ice Spear. The MP pool would certainly help out later when you begin to train your Crash Shot, since spamming CS does tend to eat your MP, but that will be not much of a problem with a wide MP pool. AP wise, I would say go with mage first with MP boosting skills, since they take the lesser AP from you, and then hybridize when you've done your Advanced magics which take the most. Try to get a decent MP pool first, and do it at your own pace. Train skills based on your CP, and notneccessarily on the power of it. Advanced magics are powerful, but they add a lot of CP, which will be troubling in the long run if you don't got -CP. Mage is expensive as well, so if you went range, it would feel much easier, or a lot of a difference in the amount you would have to spend on it. But the dexterity adding life skills tend to cost a lot of money to rank, and becoming mage I suppose would let you get used to buying a lot of things..Such as Mana herbs or potions.
If range first, definetly do refine first off, and possibly Windmill for the will and the less work later..Do Magnum and production as some stamina and damage base so you can gain AP from leveling. When you get good enough to do the harder things, then you can start doing + dex skills with extra AP..After Magnum, do Final Shot and Crash shot maybe, since they will be the most tedious to train out of all the combat skills you'll probably have trained. Crash Shot may be hard with a not a lot of Mana, but you gain mana as you go, so you partially get something out of the way when you want to hybridize. Lots of AP, but worth it, I'd say.
Just try to do whatever you feel comfortable and be willing to commit to at your own pace, I'd say. Try range first when you're less rich, then as you gain money, you hybridize to magic..
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Ignorant wrote on 2011-01-12 03:28
@gentrone Ahahaha! xD Yes, I've noticed Trigger is well liked, lolol. I also like to think that all spells have their pros, cons, and applications, but I can't help but droll over Ice Spear xD You know.
@Ryoko I actually decided to become a range/magic hybrid because as a mage, I was mostly meleeing while throwing in some bolt spells D8 I didn't have the MP to spam TH and wands were expensive to repair. I now have a Clover Pig, so making MP pawts might be easier now xD. Even if it's just r1 range and r5 Mag, I want to have range as an option for when my MP runs dry or when I'm fighting something that isn't worth the MP in the first place.
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radionoise wrote on 2011-01-12 03:53
Magic+Alchemy or Ranged+Alchemy both work very well as hybrid skill-sets... but ranged can't be strong without specialization, and weak range can only be supportive of melee.
If you're very interested in being a hybrid, it'd be more efficient to do Magic+Alchemy first and then focus heavily on range once you're satisfied with your skills as a mage+alchemist. Ranged has very slow growth unless you heavily focus on it, and weak range is very weak when compared to weak magic/alchemy.
As for the ego... since you're an elf, Wing Bow or Ring Bow ego are your best choices. There are valid reasons as to why some people would ego wands, but their advantages are not worth giving up the bow as an elf, assuming you do eventually get to rank range to decent levels.
If getting MP is an issue, you should rank thunder... it'll allow you to be self-sufficient via rafting. I don't even have very high potion making ranks, and should I need to, I can make 10 stacks of MP pots in half an hour of rafting+potmaking.
Edit: Sorry for the wall of text, but two more things... you shouldn't rank Crash Shot at all until your ranged damage is decent, otherwise intermediate magic will far outperform it at lower AP cost requirements.
Ice Spear is also very underrated... Even though thunder has the upper hand in efficiency, Ice Spear is more fun.
It also encourages party play, since it lets you freeze Ghasts in Peaca INT and allows you to duo missions extremely fast when paired with a blazer... your friends can even use Flame Burst on frozen enemies to allow for others to magnum/smash without a care. The spell will also become absurdly strong in G13, since Ice Spear has the most multipliers available after INT formula is rebalanced and new enchants/equipment sets are released.
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Ignorant wrote on 2011-01-12 04:07
@radionoise So it comes down to magic or range? D8 If that's the case, I might go with range. It's more fast-paced than magic, and taking a little risk with aiming might be fun. If I do go range, do you suggest going for Crash Shot first, or ranking Final Shot before Crash Shot?
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radionoise wrote on 2011-01-12 04:20
Quote from Ignorant;287184:
@radionoise So it comes down to magic or range? D8 If that's the case, I might go with range. It's more fast-paced than magic, and taking a little risk with aiming might be fun. If I do go range, do you suggest going for Crash Shot first, or ranking Final Shot before Crash Shot?
Ranged Attack, Magnum and Critical should be your main concern, along with life skills... Crash Shot/Final Shot at r9 should be fine until you obtain decent damage. I'd say sometime after 200 max, you should get r5 crash shot and then finish ranking the skill after you have enough stam/mp/damage to support it. Final Shot should only be ranked when its dex costs less AP than other skills... the reason being that FS skill only really showcases its true potential at r1, and when paired with a vast mana pool and r6 mana shield.
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Ignorant wrote on 2011-01-12 04:37
I just remembered that I completely forgot about Mirage Missile x-x Where would this fit in in terms of priority? D8 Also, would I do FS after or before Weaving?
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radionoise wrote on 2011-01-12 04:43
Quote from Ignorant;287246:
I just remembered that I completely forgot about Mirage Missile x-x Where would this fit in in terms of priority? D8 Also, would I do FS after or before Weaving?
You'd want to do Refine first, then Weaving, Playing Instrument, First aid, etc... Mirage Missile, is made obsolete by Crash Shot and only needed situationally for certain enemies, so feel free to rank it for the dex whenever it costs less AP to rank than other things. Support Shot gives better dex than Mirage Missile, as well.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2011-01-12 05:05
Once you've obtained r1 Ranged Attack in addition to r1 Weaving/Production Mastery you should rank Crash Shot to at least r5 in order to capitalize on the easy exploration experience gained through rafting. Rank Critical Hit whenever possible. You should also consider ranking Windmill for the added willpower.
Obtain transformation as soon as possible, save up AP for Bow Mastery, consider ranking magic mastery to at least r9 in order to utilize Crash Shot more frequently, knock out skills with a good AP/dex ratio (weaving/handicraft/support shot, etc), consider ranking lightning bolt to r5, consider ranking barrier spikes to r5/r1, rank Crash Shot to r1, rank final shot to r1, obtain more dex/stamina/mana, consider ranking shock, etc, etc
Essentially, focus on your primary skills while obtaining as much Dexterity, Stamina and Mana as fast as possible. A secondary concern would include your survivability, so rank skills like combat mastery, rest, barrier spikes, etc.
Eventually, you'll want to aim for around 90/130 critical and as much damage as possible.
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Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-12 07:42
I have to wonder why some people are so resistant to Trigger's guide and call it biased. He openly states in the very beginning that no guide can think for you, and his guide is merely a well-informed resource.
His suggestions on "build" are based on facts. Bolt spells do crappy damage compared to intermediate magic. While they are useful for the early levels as a source of INT and getting to a point where you can quickly kill weak enemies, your real gameplay as a mage starts when you begin working with intermediate magic.
Thunder is far easier to get than fireabll or ice spear in terms of hunting your own pages or buying them. Thunder costs less AP than ice spear. These are simple facts... not opinions. Therefore it is easier to get rk1 thunder than it is rk1 in either of the other two intermediate magics, making it the easiest route to getting a high damage main attack.
Unless you're an elf, ice spear uses up way more mp/damage than thunder does. Even as an elf, you're only about matching thunder in mp/damage efficiency. In addition to that, thunder has longer range, making it much easier to use. Do note that trigger's guide actually does mention that ice spear is a viable choice for elves because of that reduced mana cost.
But put to its most simple terms, Trigger's guide is as follows: step 1, get yourself to the point where you can kill easy stuff. Ice bolt is a good choice if you are starting with nothing, but players already developed in some way (such as having several skill ranks in another build) can skip to the next step.
Step 2: build your character up in a "magey" fashion. Increase MP pool through magic mastery, raise INT through various skills. As part of the INT building process rank lightning bolt as a strictly better bolt spell than icebolt.
Step 3: Work on what will become your primary attack, Thunder. Enjoy easier leveling and AP due to the amazing power of this spell.
Step 4: build up some alternate, situational attacks like fireball, and overall boost your INT a lot higher to prepare for good blaze damage, and more MP to fuel it. Ensure other basics like critical hit are rk1 by now, if not already done.
Step 5: rank blaze to 1 because it is super fast and strong but only in the hands of a well developed mage with lots of INT.
Step 6: enjoy your success having gotten to a powerful character quickly, and use that power to do other stuff that might also interest you, like becoming a hybrid.