G13 Some things flashy but definitely, the suck? O.o

• Retard wrote on 2011-01-15 06:49
  Ok this is regarding Hailstorm. Sure its flashy but from a mathematical point of it is not efficient at all. With a 6.5 second prepare costing 50MP and then 4MP usage for 30 seconds after, the max DPS would be ~9000/40=225/sec, which is pretty good, but for a total of a bulky 170MP Usage. Plus its basically like a bolt since the splash is almost non-existant. With r1TH the average DPS on a mob of 12 would be 3000/15x12= 2400/sec! Edit: for only 108 ( with my set) ~80 mana!
  
  So is HS really worth it? (I think I answered my own question, but its debateable XD)
• Kueh wrote on 2011-01-15 07:03
  Your mana cost's aren't compatible.
  
  You need to use the mana cost for the same amount of time as hailstorm. The costs end up being about the same.
  
  Plus, you can't just disregard the splash damage for hailstorm but assume max splash for thunder.
  
  For comparisons like this, you need to leave as much between the two as similar as possible.
  
  I don't have an opinion either way (yet), but the formulas you're using should be altered to be more impartial.
• rinaek wrote on 2011-01-15 07:31
  I'm pretty sure they'll end up with differently roles. Hailstorm's range seems to be a bit short to be an efficient trash-mob killer, but I'm pretty sure it'd be amazing if you could pin down a boss monster or two against a wall with it and just beat it down nonstop for 30 seconds, like a magic version of final hit of sorts.
  Thunder will probably still be the more efficient trash-mob killer, simply because of superior range and initial charge time.
  
  Just my own opinion, though.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-01-15 14:29
  But Hailstorm adds +19 dex, that is more than enough reason to rank it for non-mages/alchemist. The +int/mana part is enough for mages to rank it as well. Only Alchemists wouldn't care much about this skill.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2011-01-15 15:30
  Critical hit by a mage using Hailstorm.
  
  

  [Image: http://i56.tinypic.com/wvr39d.png]

  
  
  Looks worth it enough for me
• Tatsigi wrote on 2011-01-15 15:32

  Quote from Purrz24;291222:

  Ok this is regarding Hailstorm. Sure its flashy but from a mathematical point of it is not efficient at all. With a 6.5 second prepare costing 50MP and then 4MP usage for 30 seconds after, the max DPS would be ~9000/40=225/sec, which is pretty good, but for a total of a bulky 170MP Usage. Plus its basically like a bolt since the splash is almost non-existant. With r1TH the average DPS on a mob of 12 would be 3000/15x12= 2400/sec! Edit: for only 108 ( with my set) ~80 mana!
  
  So is HS really worth it? (I think I answered my own question, but its debateable XD)

  
  
  First off, These calculations are totally illrelevent for many reasons.
  
  

  
  
  • You are using thunders current damage, when you need to be using the nerfed damage
    
  • You totally disregarded the splash for hailstorm but used the max amount of monsters for thunder.
    
  • You left out an important factor of hailstorm in that it gains 2% mana consmuption for every 100int
    
  • You totally disregarded the mana reductions on hailstorm
    
  • Your max damage for hailstorm seems estimated at best
    

  
  
  I'll give you the correct calculations for hailstorm and the thunder with rank 1 masteries, new g13 damage, g13 int bonus, hailstorm special mp reduction, etc and all assuming that this mage has 500int. I will do all of the calculations based of single target dps due to the fact there will usually never be the max amount of targets that thunder can hit, and also calculating for 1 monster would be much simpler. Think of it as calculating the damage on a single boss like a shadow commander or something. This video shoes Hailstorms splash isn't that bad.
  
  [video=youtube;wSxV6rMJIJo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSxV6rMJIJo[/video]
  
  It could almost be comparable to a Flame Burst User, Do they not find multiple targets to hit?
  
  The Calculations
  Hailstorm:
  
  Hailstorm does 200-300damage per charge of crystal and show by this video, Hailstorm can get in 6 full charges before the spell cancels
  
  [video=youtube;3qSmjQToTCY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qSmjQToTCY[/video]
  
  So the full damage would be 200-300(5)(6) = 6000-9000(1.25)(1.15) = 8625-12937.5
  base dam(full charge)(# of hits) = damage(int bonus)(ice mastery bonus) = final damage
  
  Then we consider the mana consumption. Which is 170(.9)(.9)(.8) = 110.16mp
  Mana Use(Hailstorms Special Factor)(Mana Reduction Set)(Ice Mastery) = Mana Used
  
  So For the final DPS for hailstorm would be 8625-12937.5/36.5secs = 263.3-354.5dps
  For the final damage/mp for hailstorm would be 8625-12937.5/110.16mp = 78.2-117.4 Damage per MP
  
  
  Thunder:
  Damage Equation ~
  106-400(4)+106-400(2) = 636-2400(1.25)(1.15) = 914.25-3450
  g13 damage(4)+g13 damage(2 [Thunder gets 2x damage on the final charge]) = Damage(int bonus)(lightning mastery) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  109.6(.9)(.8)(.84) = 66.3mp
  Mp Use(Mana Reduc Set)(Lightning Mastery)(Lightning Wand Upgrades) = MP Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  914-3450/23.5 = 38.9-146.8dps
  damage/Charge Time+Standby Time = DPS
  
  914-3450/66.3mp = 13.8-53 Damage Per MP
  
  
  Final Results
  Hailstorm:
  DPS = 263.3-354.5
  D/MP = 78.2-117.4
  
  Thunder:
  DPS = 38.9-146.8
  D/MP = 13.8-53
  
  So as you see for a skilled mage, Thunder falls horribly short compared to the damage done by Hailstorm
  
  I'll Leave you with one more video. Watch this video in HD and compare the hailstorm user damage to the thunder user damage and you'll see a huge difference. I don't even think the thunder user got time to shoot the spell.
  
  [video=youtube;5dEEFHCfVms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dEEFHCfVms[/video]
• Chinaboy475 wrote on 2011-01-15 15:57
  O.O they finished conflict in about 2 mins? HOLY!
• Tatsigi wrote on 2011-01-15 15:59

  Quote from Chinaboy475;291416:

  O.O they finished conflict in about 2 mins? HOLY!

  
  
  Conflict on Hard :)
• Zatrox wrote on 2011-01-15 16:16

  Quote from EndlessDreams;291374:

  But Hailstorm adds +19 dex, that is more than enough reason to rank it for non-mages/alchemist. The +int/mana part is enough for mages to rank it as well. Only Alchemists wouldn't care much about this skill.

  
  
  Guess I need to rank this skill too... :v
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-01-15 16:39
  it looks pretty good but how easy/hard is it to get the trinity staff? How much will it be in the housing shops?
• Tatsigi wrote on 2011-01-15 16:59

  Quote from sakraycore;291434:

  it looks pretty good but how easy/hard is it to get the trinity staff? How much will it be in the housing shops?

  
  
  
  Well the same person who posted the video said in her comment...
  
  

  
  1. Trinity clothing sets are rare reward from the theatre missions. However Korean and Japanese mabi had an event giving the staff and other newcoming stuff including the sets, I got my set gears throuhgh that event. 2. read my past comment for more information. 3. Theatre missions are almost same as the shadow missions. You can redo.
  
  I found the staff is not so rare, got 2 staves in 30 theatre mission trial
  

  
  
  The missions it comes from is request from the new kind hard, and this is the summary of the event that gave them.
  
  3 emissionaries(the NPCs saying they were from NA, KR and CN mabi) appeared near the Dunbarton admin office and each of them gave a player character a gift per day. Logged in as every my characters, talked to 3 NPCs, received 3 gifts. We repeated it during an event period. A trinity staff was a one of the rare gifts.
  
  So for those of us with many characters and many accounts you can farm this event everyday for rewards. This is the reward list that they had on the JP Mabi wiki. I used google translate so they aren't translated perfectly but could easily be figured out.
  
  American delegates present
  [HEG] [men] St. Patrick's Day costume (for men)
  [HEG] [St. Patrick's Day costume for women - (For Women)
  [HE] [men] Pilgrim costume (for men)
  [HE] [for women] Pilgrim costume (for women)
  [G] [men] Pilgrim Costume (Men's Giant)
  [G] [for women] Pilgrim Costume (Women's Giant)
  [HE] [men] Pilgrim hat (for men)
  [HE] [for women] Pilgrim Hat (For Women)
  [G] [men] Pilgrim Hat (Men's Giant)
  [G] [for women] Pilgrim Hat (For Women Giant)
  
  The present mission Kankoku
  [HE] [men] 国風 different costume (for men)
  [HE] [for women] 国風 different costume (for women)
  [G] [men] Giant exotic costume (for men)
  [G] [for women] Giant outlandish costumes (for women)
  [HE] [men] 国風 different ethnic shoes (for men)
  [HE] [for women] 国風 different ethnic shoes (for women)
  [G] [men's] shoes and exotic ethnic Giant (Giant Men)
  [G] [women's] shoes and exotic ethnic Giant (Giant Women)
  [HE] [] Muffler Men (for men)
  [HE] [for women] Ayan (For Women)
  
  Tyuugoku present mission
  [HE] [Chinese New Year red dress - for men (for men elf people)
  [HE] [for women] Chinese New Year red dress (for women elf people)
  [HE] [men's fur hat - Chinese New Year (male elf people)
  [HE] [Chinese New Year for Women - hair ornaments (for women elf people)
  [HEG] [men] Peking Opera costume (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Peking Opera costume (for women)
  [HEG] [men's] opera headdresses (for men)
  [HEG] [women's] opera headdresses (for women)
  [HEG] opera shoes (for all species)
  
  [Common]
  Weapons
  [HG] Gurorisodo
  [HG] Doragontousu
  [HEG] Torinitisutaffu (Trinity Staff) You have a chance to get it from each of the 3 NPCs
  [HEG] Borukenoshirinda
  [HEG] Taidaruuebushirinda
  [HEG] Hurricane Cylinder
  [HEG] Asukueikushirinda
  Set Items
  [HEG] Hebonarobu
  [HEG] Hebonashuzu
  [HEG] Hebonasakuretto
  [HEG] Hebonagurobu
  [HEG] Kureshidauea
  [HEG] Kureshidagurobu
  [HEG] Kureshidashuzu
  [HEG] Peitoranuea　
  [HEG] Peitorangurobu
  [HEG] Peitoranshuzu
  [HEG] hat Peitoran
  [HEG] [men] Torinitiuea (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Torinitiuea (For Women)
  [HEG] Torinitisakuretto
  [HEG] Torinitishuzu
  [HEG] [for women] Torinitigurobu
  [HEG] [men] Adonisuuea (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonisuuea (For Women)
  [HEG] [men] Adonis hat (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonis Hat (For Women)
  [HEG] [men] Adonisushuzu (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonisushuzu (For Women)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonisuburesuretto (For Women)
  [HG] Banamupuretoherumetto (for Human Giant)
  [HG] Banamupuretoama (for Human Giant)
  [HG] Banamupuretogantoretto (for Human Giant)
  [HG] Banamupuretobutsu (for Human Giant)
  [ More ]
  
  Modified stone → equipped / remodeling special
  　Remodeling - Blue Stone
  　Red Stone - remodeling
  Jewelry → mineral extraction - Terms jewelry collection
  Fixed 3cm
  　- Aquamarine
  　- Emerald
  　- Garnet
  　- Jasper
  　- Star Sapphire
  　- Spinel
  　- Diamonds
  　- Topaz
  　- Ruby
  Portion
  Nowak - a three randomly
  　- 50/100 Raifuposhon
  　- 50/100 Sutaminaposhon
  　- 50/100 Manaposhon
• Retard wrote on 2011-01-15 20:47
  Hmmm i guess i mine as well rank hailstorm XD.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-17 00:15

  Quote from Tatsigi;291406:

  
  I'll give you the correct calculations for hailstorm and the thunder with rank 1 masteries, new g13 damage, g13 int bonus, hailstorm special mp reduction, etc and all assuming that this mage has 500int. I will do all of the calculations based of single target dps due to the fact there will usually never be the max amount of targets that thunder can hit, and also calculating for 1 monster would be much simpler. Think of it as calculating the damage on a single boss like a shadow commander or something.
  
  The Calculations
  Hailstorm:
  
  Hailstorm does 200-300damage per charge of crystal and show by this video, Hailstorm can get in 6 full charges before the spell cancels
  
  So the full damage would be 200-300(5)(6) = 6000-9000(1.25)(1.15) = 8625-12937.5
  base dam(full charge)(# of hits) = damage(int bonus)(ice mastery bonus) = final damage
  
  Then we consider the mana consumption. Which is 170(.9)(.9)(.8) = 110.16mp
  Mana Use(Hailstorms Special Factor)(Mana Reduction Set)(Ice Mastery) = Mana Used
  
  So For the final DPS for hailstorm would be 8625-12937.5/36.5secs = 263.3-354.5dps
  For the final damage/mp for hailstorm would be 8625-12937.5/110.16mp = 78.2-117.4 Damage per MP
  
  
  Thunder:
  Damage Equation ~
  106-400(4)+106-400(2) = 636-2400(1.25)(1.15) = 914.25-3450
  g13 damage(4)+g13 damage(2 [Thunder gets 2x damage on the final charge]) = Damage(int bonus)(lightning mastery) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  109.6(.9)(.8)(.84) = 66.3mp
  Mp Use(Mana Reduc Set)(Lightning Mastery)(Lightning Wand Upgrades) = MP Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  914-3450/23.5 = 38.9-146.8dps
  damage/Charge Time+Standby Time = DPS
  
  914-3450/66.3mp = 13.8-53 Damage Per MP
  
  
  Final Results
  Hailstorm:
  DPS = 263.3-354.5
  D/MP = 78.2-117.4
  
  Thunder:
  DPS = 38.9-146.8
  D/MP = 13.8-53
  
  I'll Leave you with one more video. Watch this video in HD and compare the hailstorm user damage to the thunder user damage and you'll see a huge difference. I don't even think the thunder user got time to shoot the spell.
  
  [video=youtube;5dEEFHCfVms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dEEFHCfVms[/video]

  
  
  After watching the vid through a few times, I noticed a few things. The hailstorm user started casting close to the same time the thunder user did, so seems like a pretty decent comparison on that basis at least. Though with all the other crazy stuff going on at the same time, it can be kind of hard to see what those two were contributing.
  
  After getting five charges of thunder loaded, stuff was pretty well scattered around and being hit and damaged by fury of light, blaze explosions, and so on. Some of the thunder chained into the barrier spikes, but I think it still managed to hit and wipe out three targets. Not too bad for a relatively hectic situation with all kinda of stuff moving around like that, but I will say that hitting 4-5 targets with thunder when fully charged is a lot closer to what I would consider the norm.
  
  After loading hailstorm, the infra got 5 shots released, each hitting a single target (and one shot [shot 4] seemed like it might have been released a bit fast). Seems like a 6ths shot could have been fired off before hailstorm ran out, but no good targets presented themselves. Gving a bit more ideal situation to the hailstorm user I could see 7-8 targets getting hit to be expected, with splash contributing to the count.
  
  Not relevant to the comparison, but I also counted 6 blaze explosions, and give some props to how well that blazer was able to set up and use pet for some nice blazes.
  
  
  Here are my modifications to your calculations to accoutn for something a bit more realistic than just a single-target boss fight. Though it is interesting to note that hailstorm seems to be quite useful in that situation.
  
  Hailstorm (8 targets~6shots+2splashes):
  Damage Equation ~
  200-300(5)(8) = 8000-12000(1.25)(1.15) = 11500-17250
  base dam(full charge)(# of hits) = damage(int bonus)(ice mastery bonus) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  170(.9)(.9)(.8) = 110.16mp
  Mana Use(Hailstorms Special Factor)(Mana Reduction Set)(Ice Mastery) = Mana Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  11500-17250/36.5secs = 315-472.6dps
  11500-17250/110.16mp = 104.4-156.6 Damage per MP
  
  
  Thunder (four targets):
  Damage Equation ~
  106-400(4)+106-400(2) = 636-2400(1.25)(1.15)(4) = 3657-9600
  g13 damage(4)+g13 damage(2 [Thunder gets 2x damage on the final charge]) = Damage(int bonus)(lightning mastery)(targets) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  109.6(.9)(.8)(.84) = 66.3mp
  Mp Use(Mana Reduc Set)(Lightning Mastery)(Lightning Wand Upgrades) = MP Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  3657-9600/23.5 = 155.6-408.5dps
  damage/Charge Time+Standby Time = DPS
  
  3657-9600/66.3mp = 55.1-144.8 Damage Per MP
  
  Thunder (five targets):
  Damage Equation ~
  106-400(4)+106-400(2) = 636-2400(1.25)(1.15)(5) = 4571-17250
  g13 damage(4)+g13 damage(2 [Thunder gets 2x damage on the final charge]) = Damage(int bonus)(lightning mastery)(targets) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  109.6(.9)(.8)(.84) = 66.3mp
  Mp Use(Mana Reduc Set)(Lightning Mastery)(Lightning Wand Upgrades) = MP Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  4571-17250/23.5 = 194.5-734dps
  damage/Charge Time+Standby Time = DPS
  
  4571-17250/66.3mp = 68.9-260.2 Damage Per MP
  
  
  Final Results
  Hailstorm(8):
  DPS = 315-472.6
  D/MP = 104.4-156.6
  
  Thunder(4):
  DPS = 155.6-408.5
  D/MP = 55.1-144.8
  
  Thunder(5):
  DPS = 194.5-734
  D/MP = 68.9-260.2
  
  As you can see, Thunder is still the best when used for what it is good for: Hitting lots of targets, and dishing out heaps of damage fast.
• Herro wrote on 2011-01-17 00:34

  Quote from Tatsigi;291449:

  Well the same person who posted the video said in her comment...
  
  
  
  The missions it comes from is request from the new kind hard, and this is the summary of the event that gave them.
  
  3 emissionaries(the NPCs saying they were from NA, KR and CN mabi) appeared near the Dunbarton admin office and each of them gave a player character a gift per day. Logged in as every my characters, talked to 3 NPCs, received 3 gifts. We repeated it during an event period. A trinity staff was a one of the rare gifts.
  
  So for those of us with many characters and many accounts you can farm this event everyday for rewards. This is the reward list that they had on the JP Mabi wiki. I used google translate so they aren't translated perfectly but could easily be figured out.
  
  American delegates present
  [HEG] [men] St. Patrick's Day costume (for men)
  [HEG] [St. Patrick's Day costume for women - (For Women)
  [HE] [men] Pilgrim costume (for men)
  [HE] [for women] Pilgrim costume (for women)
  [G] [men] Pilgrim Costume (Men's Giant)
  [G] [for women] Pilgrim Costume (Women's Giant)
  [HE] [men] Pilgrim hat (for men)
  [HE] [for women] Pilgrim Hat (For Women)
  [G] [men] Pilgrim Hat (Men's Giant)
  [G] [for women] Pilgrim Hat (For Women Giant)
  
  The present mission Kankoku
  [HE] [men] 国風 different costume (for men)
  [HE] [for women] 国風 different costume (for women)
  [G] [men] Giant exotic costume (for men)
  [G] [for women] Giant outlandish costumes (for women)
  [HE] [men] 国風 different ethnic shoes (for men)
  [HE] [for women] 国風 different ethnic shoes (for women)
  [G] [men's] shoes and exotic ethnic Giant (Giant Men)
  [G] [women's] shoes and exotic ethnic Giant (Giant Women)
  [HE] [] Muffler Men (for men)
  [HE] [for women] Ayan (For Women)
  
  Tyuugoku present mission
  [HE] [Chinese New Year red dress - for men (for men elf people)
  [HE] [for women] Chinese New Year red dress (for women elf people)
  [HE] [men's fur hat - Chinese New Year (male elf people)
  [HE] [Chinese New Year for Women - hair ornaments (for women elf people)
  [HEG] [men] Peking Opera costume (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Peking Opera costume (for women)
  [HEG] [men's] opera headdresses (for men)
  [HEG] [women's] opera headdresses (for women)
  [HEG] opera shoes (for all species)
  
  [Common]
  Weapons
  [HG] Gurorisodo
  [HG] Doragontousu
  [HEG] Torinitisutaffu (Trinity Staff) You have a chance to get it from each of the 3 NPCs
  [HEG] Borukenoshirinda
  [HEG] Taidaruuebushirinda
  [HEG] Hurricane Cylinder
  [HEG] Asukueikushirinda
  Set Items
  [HEG] Hebonarobu
  [HEG] Hebonashuzu
  [HEG] Hebonasakuretto
  [HEG] Hebonagurobu
  [HEG] Kureshidauea
  [HEG] Kureshidagurobu
  [HEG] Kureshidashuzu
  [HEG] Peitoranuea　
  [HEG] Peitorangurobu
  [HEG] Peitoranshuzu
  [HEG] hat Peitoran
  [HEG] [men] Torinitiuea (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Torinitiuea (For Women)
  [HEG] Torinitisakuretto
  [HEG] Torinitishuzu
  [HEG] [for women] Torinitigurobu
  [HEG] [men] Adonisuuea (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonisuuea (For Women)
  [HEG] [men] Adonis hat (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonis Hat (For Women)
  [HEG] [men] Adonisushuzu (for men)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonisushuzu (For Women)
  [HEG] [for women] Adonisuburesuretto (For Women)
  [HG] Banamupuretoherumetto (for Human Giant)
  [HG] Banamupuretoama (for Human Giant)
  [HG] Banamupuretogantoretto (for Human Giant)
  [HG] Banamupuretobutsu (for Human Giant)
  [ More ]
  
  Modified stone → equipped / remodeling special
  　Remodeling - Blue Stone
  　Red Stone - remodeling
  Jewelry → mineral extraction - Terms jewelry collection
  Fixed 3cm
  　- Aquamarine
  　- Emerald
  　- Garnet
  　- Jasper
  　- Star Sapphire
  　- Spinel
  　- Diamonds
  　- Topaz
  　- Ruby
  Portion
  Nowak - a three randomly
  　- 50/100 Raifuposhon
  　- 50/100 Sutaminaposhon
  　- 50/100 Manaposhon

  
  
  the last 3 are potions, hp/stamina/mana 50/100. Also we can add that common outfits are those of hte g13 sets (patarion, ect ect i forgot their names)
• Tatsigi wrote on 2011-01-17 00:53

  Quote from Cryosite;292886:

  After watching the vid through a few times, I noticed a few things. The hailstorm user started casting close to the same time the thunder user did, so seems like a pretty decent comparison on that basis at least. Though with all the other crazy stuff going on at the same time, it can be kind of hard to see what those two were contributing.
  
  After getting five charges of thunder loaded, stuff was pretty well scattered around and being hit and damaged by fury of light, blaze explosions, and so on. Some of the thunder chained into the barrier spikes, but I think it still managed to hit and wipe out three targets. Not too bad for a relatively hectic situation with all kinda of stuff moving around like that, but I will say that hitting 4-5 targets with thunder when fully charged is a lot closer to what I would consider the norm.
  
  After loading hailstorm, the infra got 5 shots released, each hitting a single target (and one shot [shot 4] seemed like it might have been released a bit fast). Seems like a 6ths shot could have been fired off before hailstorm ran out, but no good targets presented themselves. Gving a bit more ideal situation to the hailstorm user I could see 7-8 targets getting hit to be expected, with splash contributing to the count.
  
  Not relevant to the comparison, but I also counted 6 blaze explosions, and give some props to how well that blazer was able to set up and use pet for some nice blazes.
  
  
  Here are my modifications to your calculations to accoutn for something a bit more realistic than just a single-target boss fight. Though it is interesting to note that hailstorm seems to be quite useful in that situation.
  
  Hailstorm (8 targets~6shots+2splashes):
  Damage Equation ~
  200-300(5)(8) = 8000-12000(1.25)(1.15) = 11500-17250
  base dam(full charge)(# of hits) = damage(int bonus)(ice mastery bonus) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  170(.9)(.9)(.8) = 110.16mp
  Mana Use(Hailstorms Special Factor)(Mana Reduction Set)(Ice Mastery) = Mana Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  11500-17250/36.5secs = 315-472.6dps
  11500-17250/110.16mp = 104.4-156.6 Damage per MP
  
  
  Thunder (four targets):
  Damage Equation ~
  106-400(4)+106-400(2) = 636-2400(1.25)(1.15)(4) = 3657-9600
  g13 damage(4)+g13 damage(2 [Thunder gets 2x damage on the final charge]) = Damage(int bonus)(lightning mastery)(targets) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  109.6(.9)(.8)(.84) = 66.3mp
  Mp Use(Mana Reduc Set)(Lightning Mastery)(Lightning Wand Upgrades) = MP Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  3657-9600/23.5 = 155.6-408.5dps
  damage/Charge Time+Standby Time = DPS
  
  3657-9600/66.3mp = 55.1-144.8 Damage Per MP
  
  Thunder (five targets):
  Damage Equation ~
  106-400(4)+106-400(2) = 636-2400(1.25)(1.15)(5) = 4571-17250
  g13 damage(4)+g13 damage(2 [Thunder gets 2x damage on the final charge]) = Damage(int bonus)(lightning mastery)(targets) = final damage
  
  MP Usage ~
  109.6(.9)(.8)(.84) = 66.3mp
  Mp Use(Mana Reduc Set)(Lightning Mastery)(Lightning Wand Upgrades) = MP Used
  
  DPS and Damage Per MP ~
  4571-17250/23.5 = 194.5-734dps
  damage/Charge Time+Standby Time = DPS
  
  4571-17250/66.3mp = 68.9-260.2 Damage Per MP
  
  
  Final Results
  Hailstorm(8):
  DPS = 315-472.6
  D/MP = 104.4-156.6
  
  Thunder(4):
  DPS = 155.6-408.5
  D/MP = 55.1-144.8
  
  Thunder(5):
  DPS = 194.5-734
  D/MP = 68.9-260.2
  
  As you can see, Thunder is still the best when used for what it is good for: Hitting lots of targets, and dishing out heaps of damage fast.

  
  
  Yes, and this would fall into the category of each spell being good for different situations. According to mine and your calculations if i read yours correctly it would seem Hailstorm would be more efficient for 1-4 mobs, while thunder would be more effective for the 4-12 mobs. For everyday Hardmode missions with low spawn numbers or with mobs that don't spawn close together such as..Shadow Cast City and Provocation, hailstorm would be more damage/time efficient and depending on the situation more damage/mana efficient then thunder. While thunder would be more efficient in missions with large groups of monsters within chaining distance. Shadow wizard and sulfur spider in the shadow realm make good examples. I just felt that i needed to defend hailstorm due to the fact the OP totally rejected it and due to the fact ima be a hailstorm mage when g13 comes :thumb:
  
  And while i am posting this doesnt relate to the quote but people keep saying hailstorm is slow?
  
  [video=youtube;ZbiDY-Y-a1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbiDY-Y-a1w[/video]
  [video=youtube;ra5H5vS7zeo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra5H5vS7zeo&feature=related[/video]
  [video=youtube;G6ToO1ZVHdc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ToO1ZVHdc[/video]
  
  Hailstorm SCC Hard Solo = 8mins 38secs
  Ice Spear SCC Hard Solo = 8mins 39secs
  Thunder/Alchemy Duo SCC Hard (couldnt find solo) = 7mins 59secs
  Couldn't find a fireball run and im to lazy to record one.