Mod vs hacks?

• Claudia wrote on 2011-01-19 23:07

  Quote from Ailyene;297192:

  I'm surprised this hasn't been locked yet. So much bashing and flaming going on. It's like the Nexon forums. :(

  
  
  Yeah, same here. Between the melodramatics of "PEOPLE WHO MOD SHOULD DIE OR GO TO PRISON" and the "LOL MODS RUIN THE WHOLE GAME FOR EVERYBODY" and the holier-than-thou complexes and the pointless bickering, this thread should probably be locked. :> Hao2request?
• Reyaxris wrote on 2011-01-19 23:12

  Quote from Chiyuri;297164:

  you call me blind yet you are much more blind than you think.. Let me ask you this simple question since you mentionnedi t a few times... Where did I ever claim that "ALL MODS ARE BAD CAUSE THEY AFFECT EVERYONE IN THE SERVER AND DIRECTLY AFFECT -MY- OWN GAMEPLAY. " If you look, I use the word "cheater" instead of "modder" for nearly all my post. Do you know why? Because I,m not against every mods to begin with. I staded in a few other post that I,m against unfairness.. what is unfair about visual change of esthetic purpose or lag reducers? Honestly.. I don't like how ya trying to blame me for things I didn't say and such..
  
  Anyway skiping most of your post content since most if it is about how morals are subjective to only those who follow it. By their own moral that juge it accepteble.. cheaters decide to cheat.. what's so different about me abiding by my own moral?
  
  Also the whole law thing. When you made an acount for nexon games, you pretty much signed a contract to follow their guidline. If nexon could prove you are the owner of an acount that broek their ToS, they could just use the law against you. Of course.. nexon doesn,t gain anything doing that and proving the acount is related to you would be pretty difficult so such cource of action would probably not happen.

  
  
  "Where did I ever claim that "ALL MODS ARE BAD CAUSE THEY AFFECT EVERYONE IN THE SERVER AND DIRECTLY AFFECT -MY- OWN GAMEPLAY. " If you look, I use the word "cheater" instead of "modder" for nearly all my post. Do you know why? Because I,m not against every mods to begin with."
  
  Lulz:
  
  A)It doesn't have to be an outright written thing in your post. You imply it whether it was your intent or not. By your way of thinking and presenting, you show that mods, whatever the type, are infact negative because point B
  
  B)It's against the TOS. And the ToS is more absolute than shifting morals. You nor I have control over it, only Nexon does. By this way point C
  
  C)In your logic, any breach of the ToS by the players would result in them being "Cheaters", whatsoever the result of their breach whether or not advantages are gained. Hence, the negative tone of "breaking the ToS", would imply that -all mods are therefore cheats- by that logic alone whether one has gained anything or not.
  
  D)You step out and mention that you're not against all mods. Most people say this for their own convenience so that they won't be numbered among the modders or cheaters if ever you decide to cheat as well.
  
  "Honestly.. I don't like how ya trying to blame me for things I didn't say and such.."
  -> I do not blame you for things. I'm simply stating that you have implied your stances by your own posts. It is clear that you:
  
  A) Your stance against whatever modders do whether grave or not, would still result in them being cheaters. Again mainly because your point was that "you are the owner of an acount that broek their ToS". Hence, no one is in a gray area. It's either you cheat or don't cheat.
  
  B) Your stance of saying that you're "not against every mods to begin with. I staded in a few other post that I,m against unfairness.. what is unfair about visual change of esthetic purpose or lag reducers?" Would break your first stance of saying that the ToS is absolute. How are you "not against every mod" when any modification as stated by the ToS, would result in an infraction?
  
  "Anyway skiping most of your post content since most if it is about how morals are subjective to only those who follow it."
  
  A) This is what most people do when they do not want to read something that they believe would harm their opinion of themselves. What I've written merely provides examples concerning what you've posted. If anything 65% of the post content is yours. All your words and implications towards modders are what I've received as such.
  
  "Also the whole law thing. When you made an acount for nexon games, you pretty much signed a contract to follow their guidline."
  
  A) Every modder/cheater is aware of that. Every modder/cheater knows the risk as well. It is enough that we have people bashing us and comparing us to "murders" for breaking a game's ToS.
  
  These are the consequences we face because the ToS has deemed all of us cheaters. Your own opinion of what is cheating and what is not, is moot due to your consideration of the TOS. In Nexon's eyes, however big or small, any infraction of the TOS is still cheating. You cannot put yourself in moral ambiguity because of your stance with the TOS. Unless you would accept yourself as a hypocrite.
  
  P.S. I am not bashing you. I'm simply stating what I find to be very blind and hypocritical. It was you of all people, (along with runes) to put moral injections into this topic. Simply, all of us can enjoy this game by just ignoring what's ugly about it instead of making a muck out of things.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-01-19 23:59
  Anyone here can evoke the TOS argument, but unless they really enforce it as an iron-clad rule with measures such as game police-ing and anti-game hacking/modding features, or maybe implement some modding features as a game feature, you really don't have any true power to stop all these modding. Even so, there will always be people going against them.
  
  Thing is, it has always been more of a money against morals, self vs others issues. The TOS is meant for their (Nexon's) advantage, and not yours, from the very beginning. They can choose not to enforce it if it means that it will benefit them. My advice is to keep your morals to yourself and face what is actually happening here.
  
  For them to choose not to enforce strictly benefits some groups, don't ever forget that. Otherwise some of us are never meant to play on certain servers.
• Mystickskye wrote on 2011-01-20 06:20
  ...I forgot about this thread so didn't bother checking it but now I come back and it's like +15 pages? Holy crap people.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-20 09:31
  Mkay. Seems a lot more has been added here.
  
  1) some things are black and white. Something either is against nexon ToS, or it isn't. There is no gray area in this statement.
  2)something can be right or wrong. Unfortunately, while there may be agreement between two or more people about which is which, not 100% of people agree. What is wrong to persona A may be right or at least not wrong to person B. There is also the possibility of something being neutral... neither right or wrong. Nothing is black or white, only shades of gray. Some stuff is pretty dark gray, some stuff is pretty light gray while most stuff is somewhere between.
  
  These two things are not directly related. Something being against nexon's ToS does not make it right or wrong, except to the individual.
  
  I've used mods. I've played without mods. Between the two, I prefer mods. Why? because nexon's game has a lot of potential to be fun, but it is incredibly dependent on latency, and many of the cosmetic parts of it are horribly designed, and -cause unnecessary lag-. You can try to claim this isn't so, but there is mountains of evidence that even to this day, stuff like the font causes lag, while a different font causes less.
  
  Because I refuse to have my gameplay experienced reduced or even completely ruined by lag, I choose to mod. As far as Nexon goes, should they choose to enforce their ToS, I could be banned. I accept this risk, as do many other players. I bank this risk against the fact that I know nexon is a business, and seeks to earn profits. My use of mods keeps me playing, therefore paying (I buy rebirths and pets and even the occasional cash shop item like any non-modder does).
  
  If your personal set of morals deems me to be a vile disgusting piece of trash for this, so be it. I don't seek to change your opinion. I'd probably have plenty of personality conflict with you otherwise.
  
  All I seek, is recognition that a) I'm a human being. I'm not some criminal scum that curb stomps infants. b) modding is not the entirety of my being; I have plenty of other things in my life that I do that you could very easily find as shared interests.
  
  Just note that the person you are so busy alienating, trying to condemn as trash, a criminal, or whatever metaphor you wish to try to use... is someone who could probably help you out with some quest, or lifeskill. Someone who you could talk to and hold a fun conversation with. You're letting your choice to hold such weighted emotion over this interfere with your opportunity to have another friend.
  
  I can mod, and enjoy my game, and make friends with other people that mod, or with people who choose not to. Some of you can apparently only make friends with those who don't mod. If anyone is ruining the game, I'd say it is those being less social.
• Omegatronic wrote on 2011-01-20 13:40
  House rules.
  
  Whenever I play Monopoly I always have house rules. Penalty money for a free parking lottery. Pass go once before buying property. Multiple Hotels. I find the game more fun with extra rules.
  
  But, the use of any house rule is agreed upon by all participants before the game begins. Once you start playing the game, one player adding rules that affect only himself (such as I get out of jail free without a card) is cheating.
  
  Before any of us played Mabinogi, we agreed to play the game without adding rules regardless of whether the rules affect one person or more than one person.
  
  House rules can make the game more fun. As I said, I never play Monopoly without them.
  But Mabinogi's TOS prohibits the use of house rules.