Guide to Choosing a Special Upgrade

• Justified wrote on 2011-01-30 04:02

  Quote from Aubog007;310494:

  I've asked other players who look on the JP wiki and they confirm that R type stacks.
  I thought ive already said this.
  Ill check again though.
  
  EDIT: That's Kurodo. I trust his results greatly.

  
  
  I'd be more inclined to believe it if somebody provided actual evidence. Kurodo* didn't even support the claim, all he did was throw a bunch of screenies together without any explanation. As I said above, the math doesn't add up.
  The damage before upgrades, and then with both upgrades (and preferably with one upgrade too) would be sufficient evidence.
  
  As far as wikis go, JP isn't very reliable for G13 data (it's missing loads of upgrade/Artisan data and such), so I'm not taking that as decisive evidence either.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2011-01-30 04:38

  Quote from Justified;310553:

  I'd be more inclined to believe it if somebody provided actual evidence. Kenero didn't even support the claim, all he did was throw a bunch of screenies together without any explanation. As I said above, the math doesn't add up.
  The damage before upgrades, and then with both upgrades (and preferably with one upgrade too) would be sufficient evidence.
  
  As far as wikis go, JP isn't very reliable for G13 data (it's missing loads of upgrade/Artisan data and such), so I'm not taking that as decisive evidence either.

  
  
  the same guild that has the enchant database and the charts on the wiki showing break even types.
  
  (Different people but same guild, trust most of them)
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-30 04:56

  Quote from Justified;310553:

  I'd be more inclined to believe it if somebody provided actual evidence. Kenero didn't even support the claim, all he did was throw a bunch of screenies together without any explanation. As I said above, the math doesn't add up.
  The damage before upgrades, and then with both upgrades (and preferably with one upgrade too) would be sufficient evidence.
  
  As far as wikis go, JP isn't very reliable for G13 data (it's missing loads of upgrade/Artisan data and such), so I'm not taking that as decisive evidence either.

  
  
  What screen shot? All I did here was do math. I didn't do any screenies.
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-30 05:15

  Quote from Kenero;310626:

  What screen shot? All I did here was do math. I didn't do any screenies.

  
  
  I meant Kurodo, lol.
  The linked thread on NX forums just has a bunch of pictures and then says "Yes they stack!" when there's still no evidence that it does.
• Phanterz wrote on 2011-01-30 05:22

  Quote from Justified;310635:

  I meant Kurodo, lol.
  The linked thread on NX forums just has a bunch of pictures and then says "Yes they stack!" when there's still no evidence that it does.

  
  
  The white spider is ice-elemented anyway, so there's no way to tell if he has fire or lightning elementals that alter his damage.
  
  Fox test please.
• Animefreak97 wrote on 2011-01-30 05:37
  Well it looked looked like he had no elements, but if he had just had 1 fire on his robe how much damage would be increased?
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-30 05:39

  Quote from Animefreak97;310661:

  Well it looked looked like he had no elements, but if he had just had 1 fire on his robe how much damage be increased?

  
  
  Roughly 10%, or ~450 damage based on my above calculations.
  That would actually put it above the screenshot damage.
  
  Here's the math if R-Type upgrades do not stack.
  1310 base Smash damage
  3511 Critical Smash damage (1310 * [2.5 + .18])
  764 Smash Crit enchant bonus (65 - 8 [barehand] * 5 * 2.68)
  4275 Critical Smash
  
  4703 R-Average damage (with 1 Fire) [-172 deviation]
  4875 Screenshot damage
  5018 R-Stack damage (with 1 Fire) [+143 deviation]
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-30 05:53
  There's also no proof that the smash he did was at his max or 100% balanced hit. It could be as close as 97 or 98, so it's curious enough.
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-30 05:58

  Quote from Kenero;310686:

  There's also no proof that the smash he did was at his max or 100% balanced hit. It could be as close as 97 or 98, so it's curious enough.

  
  
  If you look closer at the screenshots, his robe is broken, meaning there should be no elemental bonus if he's using the pictured equips. In which case, neither stacked or averaged R-Type bonus would be capable of hitting 4875, 100% balanced or not.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-30 06:06

  Quote from Justified;310689:

  If you look closer at the screenshots, his robe is broken, meaning there should be no elemental bonus if he's using the pictured equips. In which case, neither stacked or averaged R-Type bonus would be capable of hitting 4875, 100% balanced or not.

  
  
  Well, did you calculate the dual wield formula properly? Check it out. Usually if the screenshot and formula doesn't match up, then it's either an unknown factor or the formula done was not calculated correctly.
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-30 06:49

  Quote from Kenero;310692:

  Well, did you calculate the dual wield formula properly? Check it out. Usually if the screenshot and formula doesn't match up, then it's either an unknown factor or the formula done was not calculated correctly.

  
  
  All my calculations are written above. If you see anything wrong with it, feel free to point it out.
• Animefreak97 wrote on 2011-01-30 08:16
  I think what we need to do get naked, use no titles, on a clean rebirth, use unenchanted dual wield R-type swords, take a SS of you smashing with your character sheet open and inventory and do this a few times until you hit your highest damage and also do it with a non elemental formor and then post your results.
• TheKartheus wrote on 2011-01-30 15:54
  Add together all of those +damage enchants (not adding in +str ones). It comes out to +45 damage. Assuming rank 1 combat and he said r9 sword mastery is +27. The 2 swords are +152. Lastly, 299 str is ~120 max damage. 45+27+152+120=344
  344*5*2.86=4919
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-30 21:30

  Quote from TheKartheus;311027:

  Add together all of those +damage enchants (not adding in +str ones). It comes out to +45 damage. Assuming rank 1 combat and he said r9 sword mastery is +27. The 2 swords are +152. Lastly, 299 str is ~120 max damage. 45+27+152+120=344
  344*5*2.86=4919

  
  
  If we're assuming he's naked on the character stat window...
  10 (Acc) + 14 (Hat) + 10 (Acc) + 11 (Body) + 8 (Hand) + 8 (Boot) + 2 (Weapon) + 2 (Weapon) = 65 from enchants including the strength. Strength has to be included if we're assuming he's naked, or else the entire bonus from enchants should be +0.
  Combat Mastery is always applied, so there is +0 from that.
  I did leave out Sword Mastery, so that is an extra +7. (Also r1 CM + r9 SM is only 25 Max).
  
  
  Regardless, I'm tired of recalculating these numbers again and again. If somebody wants to prove a point, they should do it properly. The Scientific Method is introduced in grade school, it shouldn't be hard to post a decent example. It severely hurts Kurodo's reliability that he can't even do that, and I'm still clueless as to why he decided to strip down and SS everything instead of just showing his final damage range and weapons, while using a non-elemental test subject.
  
  As for being "a trustworthy source" from "a trustworthy guild," that's an appeal to authority.
  
  
  On this note, if indeed I am wrong, then the Dual-Wield break-even point will match Single-Wield exactly. I've updated the first post accordingly. (Ironically enough, even if they do stack, Kurodo is still below the break-even point for dual-wielding).
• ikotomi wrote on 2011-01-30 22:19
  I did the calculations for a friend the other day to confirm. The calculations assuming everything he posted was true is this:
  
  Base max damage = 186 - 8 + 4 + 7 = 189. This is Barehand damage - 8 + 4 damage (10 strength from dual giant) + 7 (sword mastery).
  Total max damage = 189+ 75 + 77 = 341. Adding in weapons
  
  Smash crit:
  341*5 + 341*5*1.86 = 4876.3 > 4875
  
  I agree that he should have been a lot more transparent, but it seems that it does indeed confirm stacking.